A Stak Attack, 2 missionaries, and suffering in God's plan

[_MrStakhanovite]

Well let’s think it through…
(1) God could punish her rapists, but I don’t think that would go a long way in healing her trauma.

(2) God could heal her trauma directly, but how?

(Second Amendment) He could erase her memory of the event, but since the event was so terrible, much of her life after the attacked would be a senseless jumble without the context of being a survivor of something vicious.

(2b) God could simply grant her peace of mind, instantly making her feel at peace with the entire event, but doesn’t this seem kind of like a cheap deus ex machina? If he can do that, why not just prevent the gang rape in the first place? Why was the gang rape necessary, if he just waited till she killed herself before fixing her? Also, would this still be the same woman, because after all, her peace of mind didn’t come from herself, it was an artificial peace of mind dispensed out by a divine pharmacist.

I think (2b) is interesting, because that calls into question of why we are even here in the first place. Why study and prepare for the test if you are going to be granted an A+ anyways? It makes the entire experience here on earth just some kind of moot point.

[_stemelbow]

Well let’s think it through…
(1) God could punish her rapists, but I don’t think that would go a long way in healing her trauma.

(2) God could heal her trauma directly, but how?

In a number of ways. First it is taught that Christ suffered the same pains and afflictions we did in order to be able to succor us. Does He do this through spiritual means?

(Second Amendment) He could erase her memory of the event, but since the event was so terrible, much of her life after the attacked would be a senseless jumble without the context of being a survivor of something vicious.

It is claimed that this is a natural reaction--people lose their memory of traumatic events, sometimes, perhaps to be recovered later. I'm just saying. Anyway, how do you propose God erase one's memory?

(2b) God could simply grant her peace of mind, instantly making her feel at peace with the entire event, but doesn’t this seem kind of like a cheap deus ex machina? If he can do that, why not just prevent the gang rape in the first place? Why was the gang rape necessary, if he just waited till she killed herself before fixing her? Also, would this still be the same woman, because after all, her peace of mind didn’t come from herself, it was an artificial peace of mind dispensed out by a divine pharmacist.

And perhaps the healing isn't complete until after this life.

I think (2b) is interesting, because that calls into question of why we are even here in the first place. Why study and prepare for the test if you are going to be granted an A+ anyways? It makes the entire experience here on earth just some kind of moot point.

Perhaps there is more to it than recovering from trauma, though.

[_MrStakhanovite]

In a number of ways. First it is taught that Christ suffered the same pains and afflictions we did in order to be able to succor us. Does He do this through spiritual means?

How does Christ suffering a vicarious gang rape help this woman at all? What sense of peace would this women receive if the punishment for her rapists' sins was also commuted to Christ?

[_schreech]

How does Christ suffering a vicarious gang rape help this woman at all? What sense of peace would this women receive if the punishment for her rapists' sins was also commuted to Christ?

She can be comforted in the knowledge that Christ also shared this horrible experience with her. I mean, justice is about balance right? What's unjust about making 2 people (even though one of them had nothing to do with the rape) suffer horribly because of a single traumatic event? It certainly doesn't make god look like a sadist or anything...

Theoretically, couldn't this woman's rapists move in next door to her in the celestial kindgom as committing rape is a pardonable sin? They could be demi-gods of adjoining universes.

[_Darth J]

You guys are over-analyzing this.

Look:

Christ suffered this woman's afflictions so that even though she actually experienced the pain and trauma of being raped, he vicariously experienced it, too, and that way they both suffer, but someday in the afterlife Christ can make it so she isn't suffering anymore, even though Christ himself is still suffering because he presumably remembers vicariously experiencing it. Unless Christ forgets it, too. Therefore, her suffering was meaningless, because Christ is going to cancel it out ultimately.

Christ also suffered for the rapists, so that they can repent for the sin of raping her. So they ultimately can escape the eternal consequences of what they did.

So the woman suffers in this life but is comforted in the next one, the rapists have a way to escape the consequences so they experience pain and trauma neither in this life nor the next one, and Christ suffers for it all. So none of it means anything, because God will redeem both the victim and the rapists.

And the grand, eternal purpose God is accomplishing thus is........

Umm.........

Well, we can at least agree that it is necessary for free agency. God has to let the rapists rape her so they can have free agency. But the woman doesn't want to be raped (by definition of "rape"), so in order to follow the eternal law by which God is bound, God has to allow one person to have free agency by taking away someone else's (the free agency to choose not to be raped).

And giving free agency to one person by taking away someone else's fulfills the grand, eternal law of free agency because......

Umm..........

[_schreech]

You guys are over-analyzing this.

Look:

Christ suffered this woman's afflictions so that even though she actually experienced the pain and trauma of being raped, he vicariously experienced it, too, and that way they both suffer, but someday in the afterlife Christ can make it so she isn't suffering anymore, even though Christ himself is still suffering because he presumably remembers vicariously experiencing it. Unless Christ forgets it, too. Therefore, her suffering was meaningless, because Christ is going to cancel it out ultimately.

Christ also suffered for the rapists, so that they can repent for the sin of raping her. So they ultimately can escape the eternal consequences of what they did.

So the woman suffers in this life but is comforted in the next one, the rapists have a way to escape the consequences so they experience pain and trauma neither in this life nor the next one, and Christ suffers for it all. So none of it means anything, because God will redeem both the victim and the rapists.

And the grand, eternal purpose God is accomplishing thus is........

Umm.........

Well, we can at least agree that it is necessary for free agency. God has to let the rapists rape her so they can have free agency. But the woman doesn't want to be raped (by definition of "rape"), so in order to follow the eternal law by which God is bound, God has to allow one person to have free agency by taking away someone else's (the free agency to choose not to be raped).

And giving free agency to one person by taking away someone else's fulfills the grand, eternal law of free agency because......

Umm..........

[_MrStakhanovite]

[_asbestosman]

What if God didn't actually allow people to harm others, but only think that we do? What if this is all some elaborate Virtual Reality simulation and we're all just brains in vats. Nobody actually hurts anyone else--all they can hurt are computer simulations of other people. Your purpose in this simulation is to learn empathy for others and to do your best to alleviate their simulated suffering--which you are supposed to believe is 100% real--at least up to the point where you start criticizing God for allowing it. That's when you have to realize it's all just an illusion.

Of course, if you ever believe it's an illusion and say so, then the simulated victims will let you feel just how much of an illusion pain is.

[_Yoda]

What if God didn't actually allow people to harm others, but only think that we do? What if this is all some elaborate Virtual Reality simulation and we're all just brains in vats. Nobody actually hurts anyone else--all they can hurt are computer simulations of other people. Your purpose in this simulation is to learn empathy for others and to do your best to alleviate their simulated suffering--which you are supposed to believe is 100% real--at least up to the point where you start criticizing God for allowing it. That's when you have to realize it's all just an illusion.

Of course, if you ever believe it's an illusion and say so, then the simulated victims will let you feel just how much of an illusion pain is.

You watched "The Matrix" today, didn't you? ;-)

[_Nightlion]

This thread proves that the natural man has no business speaking about God.

God does not reduce to your level. He is not carnal, sensual, devilish, and not even temporal. He is spiritual. His words, and commandments are spiritual. His purpose in having us suffer all manner of wicked senseless and seemingly useless evil it on this wise:

So that when, and if, we ever come unto him, we will have all that drama to have to forgive.
What that causes us to do is appreciate just how somber and sober, meek and lowly in heart we must become even to be gracious to outrageous offenses we suffered BEFORE God will grant us a sanctification and raise us up to a higher state of existence.

Suffering is not only necessary it is the prime directive of this life. A thousand rapes, molestations, robberies, mob riots against our property and family, prison, withering lingering illness, loneliness, betrayals, wars upon ruthless wars all mangle a soul in the conflict of justice and demand a reconciliation. Or so it is made to seem. Our natural being sifts throught it continually for a reconciliation in physical terms that can never happen. It is the synthesis of immutable justice against all physical, emotional, spiritual, sexual viciousness either that we personally suffered or know to have been that distills within our soul to be offered up as our sacrifice in a broken heart and contrite spirit to access the grace of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I guess I could say this another way a few more times. But what good will that do? I have gone through this experience and synthesis with the Living God as my waiting Savior. I know with a perfect understanding what I am saying is THE GREAT reality to why there is evil.

To be sinned against and sacrifice/suspend all desire for justice invokes the grace of Christ on your behalf. Not because you suffered. But that you prized a life with Christ and God above natural justice. You prove that you value the love of God above your own best interest. Above your moral outrage. Got it? This is expansive and very cool in its construct, don't you think? Does not matter if you suffered greatly or hardly at all. This is the key to acceptable repentance that opens the door where Christ and God the Father receive you to begin to teach you how to receive all things. If you choose to keep your moral outrage, you chose poorly.
Suffering give you a chip in the game. Use it. Show grace that grace might be done unto you.
Not that the world is worthy that you forgive, but God is worthy that you cash in your chips to know him. As was elegantly said; The purpose of life is to know God and teach others to know him....Ms Jack.

Unique enough for you DarthJ? Has it been.....said before? I wonder. I wager not. I could have died seven times already before I put it together like this. I know what I did. It was this. Just never had to look at it this way. This was no ready answer. I just thought of it. Because you asked I combed back through all I know and have experienced to see it in terms you might understand.

Now it is a ready answer and a polished shaft in the quiver of the Lord. lol Thanks.