Guilt and Denial

[_Jason Bourne]

A friend pointed out this study, which suggests that religious people engage in the same kinds of sexual behaviors that secular people do, but they experience far higher levels of guilt and shame, and are much less open about acknowledging or expressing their desires.

I've said many times that I grew up burdened with feelings of guilt, shame, and inadequacy, which I attribute to the combination of my family dynamics and the church's teachings. Many LDS church members have responded that I obviously didn't understand the gospel and that I was the exception. Everyone else in the church understands forgiveness and repentance and doesn't carry that burden of guilt. These people tell me that I would have grown up this way no matter my religion because of my family dynamics. Of course, a lot of the family dynamics are at least partly related to our Mormonism.

What I bolded above is utter nonsense. I think the people who tell you this are the typical internet apologist type. My former SP used to say that Mormon Guilt has good old Catholic Guilt beat any day of the week. He said this in reference to a study that LDS youth and Evangelicals have less behavior that is considered immoral. But EVs when the sin get over it quicker. Mormons struggle with guilt.

As a bishop I often had members complain about guilt and the heaviness they still felt for prior sins. I was often thanked for the emphasis I placed on grace and mercy.

Anyone who has read MoF knows that the Church lays lots of guilt on a person and that makes it tough to move past. Why do people think Robinson's Believing Christ and Following Christ as well as books like the Peacegiver were such hits in the LDS readership world? Because they focused on true mercy, forgiveness and grace.

[_Runtu]

But that is New Testament the only point regarding grace made in the BD.

Didn't say it was.

It is also the divine gift given to all people for salvation. The nuance you left out was that this is in context saying the grace given to exaltation. That does not mean grace is not extended or given to all.

But my point still stands: LDS grace is insufficient to save people in the celestial kingdom without total effort on their part. Traditional Christianity says grace is sufficient for us to reach heaven. Therein is the radical de-emphasis spoken of.

[_Hoops]

We can attempt it, but no one lives the commandments perfectly, except Jesus. That's the whole point of the Atonement. If you can read the Bible without seeing God's mercy, I really don't know what to say to you.

And yet some (here) read the Bible and only see (simplistically) God's cruelty. They seem to be given a free pass.

[_just me]

That's right! Fear and guilt MUST be used in order to get people to act properly. Without FEAR, GUILT and SHAME we would all just run around raping and killing one another.

So, we can all finally agree that the LDS church uses FEAR and GUILT to get people to be OBEDIENT so that they can get some kind of reward when they die...or at least they won't be punished.

Fear and guilt are normal feelings that all people feel at some poin tin this world. they are important in LDS thought because they help us see our weaknesses, rely upon God, subsequently teaching us to learn to love others, God and the very good that will bless people eternally. Its not as you claim.

WHat did I claim that isn't correct?

Could you please cite me the study that shows people learn about their weaknesses and to rely on God and learn to love others through feeling guilt?

Also, the whole point of this thread was that LDS feel MORE guilt than all other groups. Why? Why do LDS need to feel more guilt? Are they that much worse of people?

[_stemelbow]

Grace is not a free gift in the LDS theology. And if grace isn't free, it isn't grace.

That's just not true. Grace is given to every single person as they live on to salvation. Without God's grace there would be no resurrection and glory given to us at all.

[_why me]

Next to the TR rests a business card from a psychologist I visited shortly after losing temple worthy status. LOL.

Why would you care about losing your temple status? You don't believe in Mormonism anymore, right? I haven't had a temple recommend in years and I am not seeing a psychologist. One can always attempt to get it back.

[_Buffalo]

That's right! Fear and guilt MUST be used in order to get people to act properly. Without FEAR, GUILT and SHAME we would all just run around raping and killing one another.

So, we can all finally agree that the LDS church uses FEAR and GUILT to get people to be OBEDIENT so that they can get some kind of reward when they die...or at least they won't be punished.

Fear and guilt are normal feelings that all people feel at some poin tin this world. they are important in LDS thought because they help us see our weaknesses, rely upon God, subsequently teaching us to learn to love others, God and the very good that will bless people eternally. Its not as you claim.

I'm glad you have abandoned your denial of the LDS fear and guilt program.

[_Drifting]

Grace is not a free gift in the LDS theology. And if grace isn't free, it isn't grace.

That's just not true. Grace is given to every single person as they live on to salvation. Without God's grace there would be no resurrection and glory given to us at all.

Stem, are Mormons saved by grace?
Or are they saved by grace after all they can do?

[_stemelbow]

But my point still stands: LDS grace is insufficient to save people in the celestial kingdom without total effort on their part. Traditional Christianity says grace is sufficient for us to reach heaven. Therein is the radical de-emphasis spoken of.

Let's see,...

In LDS teaching every individual is saved eternally and granted heavenly eternal existence in a degre of glory thanks to the grace of God.

In traditional Christian teaching not all people will be saved eternally and granted heavenly eternal existence in a degree of glory thanks to the grace of God.

It seems to me your point has backfired on you. Grace is far more extensive and far more pervasive for LDS teaching than for the traditional Christian teaching.

[_why me]

Or, it could be that God recognizes the human condition for what it is and thus He uses some other way. Grace, maybe?

I see. So, if I am a sinner, I don't need to stop my sin because god is mercy. So, I just keep on sinning. No reason to change my sinful ways. Sounds easy. But not from god. I don't see Christ or paul saying such things. For Christ, it was sin no more. It was not sin, don't worry because god is merciful.