Watered Down Mormonism?

[_Droopy]

It turns me off because it is disingenuous, obfuscating pablum.

Nice linguistic work there. Well stated, although not stated about the correct phenomena.

There is simply no good way around it. I feel sorry for you that you have to defend such things. The best you can do is plead milk before meat.

Defend what things, exactly?

You don't know my spirituality nor my prayers. You don't know the personal angst it has caused me to arrive at where I am at. You don't know how I wish I could put things back to what they used to be. And you don't know me, nor my heart. I have dumped thousands of hours into the issues we discuss here. The sad conclusion for me it unfortunately much if what the Church claims and that which I used to defend seems not to be true. And that does make me very sad.

This is all a part of the standard "Why I left the Church narrative" that I've seen many, many times. I do not doubt that it has caused you pain. The problem is not your suffering, as that may be, but your rejection of the light and truth of the gospel and the Lord's authorized Church and the authority within it, which indicates that perhaps, you have not yet suffered nearly enough.

I was going to respond to your defense of the items I posted but really it is a waste of time.

Yes, it may be, and as your mind continues to darken, that even the light you had is taken from you, it will become ever more unlikely that I or any other apologist will be able to have a civil or reasoned discussion with you.

Take a look at Kevin Graham, and ask yourself it that is what you wish to become (because there is a long history in the Church of that pattern being followed to its sad end time and again).

[_harmony]

This is all a part of the standard "Why I left the Church narrative" that I've seen many, many times.

I hate to be the one to tell you, droopy, but Jason hasn't left the church. He's still fully active, tithe paying, temple attending, faithful. His biggest problem is his integrity won't allow the Brethren to lie.

[_Droopy]

I hate to be the one to tell you, droopy, but Jason hasn't left the church. He's still fully active, tithe paying, temple attending, faithful. His biggest problem is his integrity won't allow the Brethren to lie.

1. Intellectually, he's essentially left the Church, just as you have.

2. Next time you lie through your teeth in the faces of your priesthood leaders to obtain your Temple Recommend, think about the text I bolded above, and remember that, given your actual beliefs and perspectives as of the present, it is highly unlikely that you would, if you answered honestly, be able to pass a baptismal interview, let alone a TR interview.

Just keep that in mind, Harmony. Ahh yes, it is Satan, isn't it - the Slanderer - who brings railing accusation against the Brethren for lying, and who says they have sinned when they have clearly not sinned, while stewing in his very own broth of lies and deceit even as he casts his defamation.

You're as transparent as always, Harmony.

[_Droopy]

This is all a part of the standard "Why I left the Church narrative" that I've seen many, many times.

I hate to be the one to tell you, droopy, but Jason hasn't left the church. He's still fully active, tithe paying, temple attending, faithful. His biggest problem is his integrity won't allow the Brethren to lie.

...I have dumped thousands of hours into the issues we discuss here. The sad conclusion for me it unfortunately much if what the Church claims and that which I used to defend seems not to be true.

Perhaps you and Jason ought to get your stories straight first...

[_huckelberry]

What Joseph Smith taught was God that Father was a man like Christ, who is also God. This is where the misconception comes from. We are not Christ or capable of being Christ. We can be saved and share in what God has and become gods, but we will never be able to be God.

As far as the gods having their own individual planet, that is also false. The gods will inherit the earth and this will be a Celestial sphere.

I appreciate reading your comments, Tobin, but I have to respectfully disagree with you here.

While it is true the King Follett Discourse can be interpreted in the way you suggest, my feeling is a straightforward reading of it (and combining all the known accounts) leads to the conclusion that Joseph Smith taught man can become as God is. Which means become a God.

As God is, man may become.

You know how it goes.

My impression is that those who interpret this as meaning God was once like Christ (as opposed to Some Schmo--where has he gotten to, by the way?) do so in order to make it more palatable to outside readers. It certainly reduces its power.

The speculation that exalted beings will have "their own planets" is just an extension of that idea. Is God an exalted being? Does he have his own planet? If so, why should things be different for others who become exalted?

There are planets aplenty where the Gods dwell.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Brigham Young was certainly unflinching here. However a few years posting on ZLMB almost convinced me that those ideas have gone completely out of style. With the rejection of Adam God ,its most complete articulation, the phrase "as man is God once was", is being reformed in the manner in which Tobin is speaking.

[_Jersey Girl]

It turns you off because you have ceased, long ago, to concern yourself with the truth or the processes necessary to "dig it up," and, like so many others here, you do not appear to have the intellectual temperament or exploratory attributes required to look at these things in a rigorous, philosophically open way.

It turns me off because it is disingenuous, obfuscating pablum.

[_huckelberry]

you have ceased, long ago, to concern yourself with the truth or the processes necessary to "dig it up," and, like so many others here, you do not appear to have the intellectual temperament or exploratory attributes required to look at these things in a rigorous, philosophically open way.

Jersey girl snipped this out of the long post with multilple quotes. I was scanning the original for at least subject matter and completely loosing who was saying what untll this phrase popped out. It is like a signiture to the true name. Window to the soul.

[_Jersey Girl]

you have ceased, long ago, to concern yourself with the truth or the processes necessary to "dig it up," and, like so many others here, you do not appear to have the intellectual temperament or exploratory attributes required to look at these things in a rigorous, philosophically open way.

Jersey girl snipped this out of the long post with multilple quotes. I was scanning the original for at least subject matter and completely loosing who was saying what untll this phrase popped out. It is like a signiture to the true name. Window to the soul.

Talk to me, huck. Can you explain more about how you describe the quote? Are you pointing toward irony?

(Hope you're well!)

[_Tobin]

I hate to be the one to tell you, droopy, but Jason hasn't left the church. He's still fully active, tithe paying, temple attending, faithful. His biggest problem is his integrity won't allow the Brethren to lie.

1. Intellectually, he's essentially left the Church, just as you have.
2. Next time you lie through your teeth in the faces of your priesthood leaders to obtain your Temple Recommend, think about the text I bolded above, and remember that, given your actual beliefs and perspectives as of the present, it is highly unlikely that you would, if you answered honestly, be able to pass a baptismal interview, let alone a TR interview.
Just keep that in mind, Harmony. Ahh yes, it is Satan, isn't it - the Slanderer - who brings railing accusation against the Brethren for lying, and who says they have sinned when they have clearly not sinned, while stewing in his very own broth of lies and deceit even as he casts his defamation.
You're as transparent as always, Harmony.

Wow Droopy, I have to disagree with you completely. I am a Mormon, but I believe understanding and appreciating the truth should be paramount in our lives, at least as best as God gives the light to see it. Just because someone is not willing to put up with non-sense and dishonest statements of faith (such as "we don't know" why blacks were denied the priesthood when it is obvious to everyone it was a racist, man-made doctrine) does not mean they do not believe in God or believe that Mormonism is based on the truth that there really is a God and we can interact with that being. Actually it should be the highest ideal for a member to hold their leaders to account for what they do and what they say. If they are mistaken, that should be pointed out and corrected. That is how we all will eventually arrive at the truth together as a church.

[_huckelberry]

Jersey Girl, I intended only an encouragement for a little more self editing favoring the interest of ideas, or even the amusment of doggerel poetry, rather than the repetative self aggrandizement.

When you selected out that example ,one amoungst thousands, I failed to resist the temptation to comment.