Steven Covey Lifts up His Eyes in Hell

[_Tobin]

So the whole spiritual molestation thing is no big deal with you? Do you figure that there is no innocence to offend or that those guy at the top are not responsible, or there is no reality to the next world so nothin'?

There are worse things in the world than Steven Covey-isms. You are being overly melodramatic about him. He had some good ideas, and some bad ones. It's par for the course.

[_Kishkumen]

Kish, I'm really curious now, what, in your opinion, is the most effective way to engage a prophet?

Respectful, polite engagement would be a start. You could also choose not to engage the prophet at all. I think aggressive approaches backfire. At least, as far as I have seen, aggressive opposition simply fulfills the prophet's expectations and reinforces his or her sense of calling.

[_Kishkumen]

I completely leveled everything he said telling the guys to convert people to Christ first and last. That president did not so much as speak a word to me when I left my mission. I wonder how many LDS leaders actually think every subordinate owes them allegiance first and last even ahead of Christ? Curious mind set.

Well, Nightlion, people are people, and human beings have a difficult time listening to others. Older folks don't like taking lessons from younger folk. Christlike humility, as exercised by both parties, obviously helps, but very few people are sufficiently possessed of that attribute to withstand a good ego bruising. I work at it as best I can, and I come up wanting. But then, I have not been born of the Spirit.

[_harmony]

That president did not so much as speak a word to me when I left my mission.

How is this possible? Every missionary has an exit interview in which he's told to go home and get married. He's cleared to pick up his plane ticket. Given his instructions for the ride to the airport. All those details.

Who did that for you, if not your MP?

[_Cylon]

Kish, I'm really curious now, what, in your opinion, is the most effective way to engage a prophet?

Respectful, polite engagement would be a start. You could also choose not to engage the prophet at all. I think aggressive approaches backfire. At least, as far as I have seen, aggressive opposition simply fulfills the prophet's expectations and reinforces his or her sense of calling.

That makes sense.

Tobin, do you think of yourself as a prophet, too? My guess is no, but I'm not sure.

[_Nightlion]

That president did not so much as speak a word to me when I left my mission.

How is this possible? Every missionary has an exit interview in which he's told to go home and get married. He's cleared to pick up his plane ticket. Given his instructions for the ride to the airport. All those details.

Who did that for you, if not your MP?

I was just herded out with everyone else whom I presume did merit an exit interview. It was a purposeful slight. There was some drama on my mission when I caught a companion reaching in the night to grab my "stuff". I knew he was gay from the first day. He had this funny way of twinkling up at me and noticing if I had shaved well or not while eating his Cheerios and the panty hose I found in the car trunk, and his claim to sleep walking and the obvious attempt to see if I was awake before he attempted to fiddle with my middle parts.

He admitted his "weakness" to the previous President when I took him to the Mission Home the next day. Since nothing ACTUALLY happened and this guy was confessing his weakness he was NOT sent home and I was told to remain his companion because a family of ten Catholics were just about to be baptized. More than a month of it.

The gay missionary praised me everyday for my patience and understanding and tolerance. This alone should assuage any doubts about my claimed sainthood.

I never ratted him out to other missionaries but I am certain it was noised about and the Mission President who came next and whom I pissed off royal probably put this incident with his take on it in my official report to my home Stake President. That would figure even though I was never confronted with it.

The Lord had a purpose in allowing the LDS leadership to hate me.

ETA: We did not sleep in the same bed. Except that one fateful night so long ago in Escanaba, Michigan where we lived with the Booth mom and daughter who had guests so we went downstairs to a double bed.

[_Tobin]

Respectful, polite engagement would be a start. You could also choose not to engage the prophet at all. I think aggressive approaches backfire. At least, as far as I have seen, aggressive opposition simply fulfills the prophet's expectations and reinforces his or her sense of calling.

That makes sense.

Tobin, do you think of yourself as a prophet, too? My guess is no, but I'm not sure.

Of course I don't. That is a calling from God and I generally have a rule of thumb that a true prophet of God isn't going to wander about stating he's a prophet of God. They have better things to do like MLK Jr and Gandhi did. Both of them I consider to be true prophets of God. But if you had ever asked them if they were prophets of God, they would have said they were not. But considering their words and actions speak true today long after they are gone, that demonstrates to me that they were truly inspired of God and called to do what they did and said. And we are the richer for having had them in our midst.

[_Nightlion]

Of course I don't. That is a calling from God and I generally have a rule of thumb that a true prophet of God isn't going to wander about stating he's a prophet of God. They have better things to do like MLK Jr and Gandhi did. Both of them I consider to be true prophets of God. But if you had ever asked them if they were prophets of God, they would have said they were not. But considering their words and actions speak true today long after they are gone, that demonstrates to me that they were truly inspired of God and called to do what they did and said. And we are the richer for having had them in our midst.

Tell us all how a man denies being a prophet and yet God called him.?????? False modesty? Beside in the great LDS tradition you need to finagle others into touting you a prophet. Around here you can only expect to be taunted a prophet, and that for the slightest intimation of propheting.

Both MLK Jr and Gandhi just happen to be leaders in the right place at the right time equal to the challenge of events happening around them. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates............prophets? lol Sam Walton and Warren Buffett.......prophets?

Did you know that there are twelve Russian Billionaires on Forbes 100 list? Only one Chinese! I guess that they are still cutting up the communist pie in China.

Would to God that I had forty days and nights in which to tell you all? I would let you know that I am not a fallen prophet. Joseph Smith (TPJS Page 355 April 1844)

[_Tobin]

Of course I don't. That is a calling from God and I generally have a rule of thumb that a true prophet of God isn't going to wander about stating he's a prophet of God. They have better things to do like MLK Jr and Gandhi did. Both of them I consider to be true prophets of God. But if you had ever asked them if they were prophets of God, they would have said they were not. But considering their words and actions speak true today long after they are gone, that demonstrates to me that they were truly inspired of God and called to do what they did and said. And we are the richer for having had them in our midst.

Tell us all how a man denies being a prophet and yet God called him.?????? False modesty? Beside in the great LDS tradition you need to finagle others into touting you a prophet. Around here you can only expect to be taunted a prophet, and that for the slightest intimation of propheting.

Both MLK Jr and Gandhi just happen to be leaders in the right place at the right time equal to the challenge of events happening around them. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates............prophets? lol Sam Walton and Warren Buffett.......prophets?

Did you know that there are twelve Russian Billionaires on Forbes 100 list? Only one Chinese! I guess that they are still cutting up the communist pie in China.

Would to God that I had forty days and nights in which to tell you all? I would let you know that I am not a fallen prophet. Joseph Smith (TPJS Page 355 April 1844)

Fascinating Nightlion. So, we must all percieve and understand God exactly the same as you do? And inspiration from God must take the form as it did with Josepth Smith? I find all of that hard to believe.

You then really jump off the deep-end and I refuse to accept your view. Are you really saying that MLK Jr and Gandhi were entrepreneurs and billionaires equivalent to Steve Jobs and Bill Gates? I don't see the parallels at all. And are you saying they were just lucky to suffer, march, and say the things and lead the examples they did because they just happened to show up on the scene at the time?

And as far as Joseph Smith, I believe he had some mental disorders. He often was boasting of things unneccessarily and careening from one problem into another - many of these problems he caused. I believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God because of a few of the inspired things he said and did. That doesn't make everything his did and said inspired at all. In fact, Joseph Smith is a difficult prophet to believe in because of this behavior.

[_Nightlion]

Tell us all how a man denies being a prophet and yet God called him.?????? False modesty? Beside in the great LDS tradition you need to finagle others into touting you a prophet. Around here you can only expect to be taunted a prophet, and that for the slightest intimation of propheting.

Both MLK Jr and Gandhi just happen to be leaders in the right place at the right time equal to the challenge of events happening around them. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates............prophets? lol Sam Walton and Warren Buffett.......prophets?

Did you know that there are twelve Russian Billionaires on Forbes 100 list? Only one Chinese! I guess that they are still cutting up the communist pie in China.

Would to God that I had forty days and nights in which to tell you all? I would let you know that I am not a fallen prophet. Joseph Smith (TPJS Page 355 April 1844)

Fascinating Nightlion. So, we must all percieve and understand God exactly the same as you do? And inspiration from God must take the form as it did with Josepth Smith? I find all of that hard to believe.

You then really jump off the deep-end and I refuse to accept your view. Are you really saying that MLK Jr and Gandhi were entrepreneurs and billionaires equivalent to Steve Jobs and Bill Gates? I don't see the parallels at all. And are you saying they were just lucky to suffer, march, and say the things and lead the examples they did because they just happened to show up on the scene at the time?

And as far as Joseph Smith, I believe he had some mental disorders. He often was boasting of things unneccessarily and careening from one problem into another - many of these problems he caused. I believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God because of a few of the inspired things he said and did. That doesn't make everything his did and said inspired at all. In fact, Joseph Smith is a difficult prophet to believe in because of this behavior.

Of course I value Martin Luther King Jr and Gandhi above billionaires. They possessed certain gifts. Talented but not prophets of God. But they all help make our lives rich as you said. No two prophets will be the same. I have never heard of another man weakened by purposeful abuse from the womb to cause him to seek God. My nonexistent self respect causes me to act unseemly at times having never known loving nurture ever once in my formative years. That does not so much take a body apart as it fails to endow a body with certain assets people identify as confidence and trust which is off putting when unidentified in me. Why that? I have to wonder aloud. Why? It makes my entire witness ineffectual and just so much a stark grey stake in the heart of LDS apostasy. Oh well. Almost like the Mormons have the Lord so furious that he purposely refuses to save any.