schreech wrote: I no longer care about any potential eternal reward that may or may not be waiting for me after this life - My goal is to enjoy what I have now and make the best of it.
Well said. Why not worry about the life that is now. You can always worry about forever when it becomes now.
just me wrote:Prove it. Prove that God is doing a damn thing.
I can't. I have no idea how to prove God is doing anything at all. And therefore what?
Kevin,
There are multiple examples in this thread of atheists and agnostics (individuals and groups) actually doing things to make a positive difference to humanity in the short term and as a legacy.
So your OP has been answered comprehensively and it seems you are the only one not to see that.
All is now being asked is that you respond in kind and show us what God is doing to make a positive difference to humanity in the short term and as a legacy.
The fact that you have 'no idea how to prove God is doing anything at all' should give you pause for thought.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
KevinSim wrote:So I ask you again, what alternative is there to the LDS Church for a person to whom it is a foregone conclusion that the LDS Church is the true church?
KevinSim wrote:So I ask you again, what alternative is there to the LDS Church for a person to whom it is a foregone conclusion that the LDS Church is the true church?
oooooOOOOOooooh. I get it now.
None. Kevin, you're only option is to stick with the church.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
KevinSim wrote:So I ask you again, what alternative is there to the LDS Church for a person to whom it is a foregone conclusion that the LDS Church is the true church?
Now we are asking the right question!
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
Fence Sitter wrote: If you cannot articulate what they are then your question about alternatives makes no sense.
How does that follow?
I could list some of the things that I consider good in this life, and how they might be preserved. My list of good things would reflect my LDS upbringing, like raising our three children, making my wife happy, and entertaining a group of toddlers in my church's nursery, etc. But I'd like to think that if someone were to successfully persuade me that those things are not good, and that the real good things are something else entirely, my commitment to find ways to forever preserve some good things would be transfered over to the new things that I'd been persuaded were good. My commitment is to good things, not to the things I get when I articulate what preserving good things is.
just me wrote:Okay. The "good thing" that I want to preserve forever is equality. Economic equality and legal equality. Not just for Americans, but for all the human race.
Who wants to join me?
Oh yeah, before preserving it we actually have to acquire it. Who's with me?!
Just Me, excellent! This is precisely what I was asking about in the OP. If I weren't already part of a faith group that I believe will preserve forever some good things, I would join you, would be with you.
café crema wrote:I find absolutely nothing in the LDS way of looking at life that even remotely satisfies the conscience. And certainly nothing you've said in either thread.
café Crema, this thread isn't about whether there's something "in the LDS way of looking at life" that satisfies the conscience. This thread is about a way of looking at life that's more conscientious than the LDS way of looking at life.
Themis wrote:If forever is possible, I think these same groups would work towards that.
This might be what I'm asking for.
Let me just clarify. Are these groups contributing in ways that will work toward forever preservation now, if such preservation is possible? Or are you saying that at the time that they realize forever is possible then they will start working for forever preservation?
I don't think we can wait on preserving forever some good things until we become aware it's a possibility; we need to start working on it now.