MDDB poll

[_Runtu]

My bad. Brain fart. I've corrected my post.

No problem. I know other people have had some bad experiences with Scott Gordon, but I have not. I don't think I will ever understand Scott Lloyd's perspective, however.

[_Madison54]

Runtu, I've read some of the thread over there and I was pretty taken aback by most of the responses you've received. My initial reaction was to see a great deal of fear over the very suggestion that maybe it would be a good idea to have another point of view represented on the panel. I also was shocked at how broad a brush many used to paint all of us who are no longer active as being bitter, ugly, angry people who are chomping at the bit to have an opportunity to attack.

I would be very willing to be a part of the panel. I no longer attend or believe, but I have not ever tried to persuade any still active members of my family to stop attending. I have been very fortunate in that I still have very good relationships with all TBM family members and it's been a joint effort from me and from them. I'd be very happy to share my experience with them and I'd agree not to bring up any "anti-Mormon" truths ( ) as long as they also agreed not to start bringing up any of those topics as well.

We were also very fortunate to have a wonderful Bishop and he has handled our going inactive incredibly well and has completely respected our right to believe as we now do and honor our wishes. There's a lot to share about that too.

However, that doesn't mean that all has gone smoothly either and I could relate what some have done in our ward that hasn't been so great.

I know there are many on here (and elsewhere) that could do the same without any bitterness or anger. But it appears that those involved with the conference can't promise to do the same. They can't even conduct a civil conversation on a forum discussing it.

And we are the angry, bitter ones?

[_Gadianton]

I think we have to understand that the apologists have a huge vested interest in painting critics as angry. Not just to diminish credibility, but as a way to influence those who leave to "live and let live" -- to keep their mouths shut. Fine, if it doesn't work for you, leave, but don't let the cat out of the bag! If you don't keep your mouth shut about Joseph Smith's immorality then boy, you must have some deep personal issues and need help. It's amazing how these guys want to control your life while you're a member, but even after you leave, they've got all these psychological ploys going to make you behave in an acceptable way to them.

Also, there is no benefit whatsoever to the apologists to have a panel where ex-members get to speak their mind. Well, is there a benefit for a critic? Take it to it's logical extreme here, suppose the apologists had a panel and listened to all the critics and used that information as means for creating apologetic materials that were more considerate of feelings etc. and so at the end of the day, better for keeping the scam going. Is that what critics want, is for the apologists to do more effective apologetics? Now, we know in the real world that this will never happen, but just consider how the world stands to benefit if it did. In the real world, it's a better gamble for the apologists to concentrate on keeping the faithful, faithful, and the best way to do that is to stage a contrived panel where ex-members are put on trial without the benefit of representing themselves, and having guys like Lloyd take pot shots.

If FAIR was paying me as a consultant to advise them on the most effective way to proceed, it would be my professional duty to tell them to have a panel where they stack the deck.

[_Kishkumen]

I take it back. Demonize is exactly the right word. Brother Lloyd not only says that a hypothetical ex-Mormon is likely to use such a panel discussion as an opportunity to attack the church, but he specifically said I would do that.

If nothing else, it's a good reminder of just how difficult it is to talk to people who consider you pond scum.

That's what gives Mopologetics such an excellent reputation.

[_Some Schmo]

I love the idea that members can't be around exmos because they might get "infected." The last thing they need is to come down with a serious case of reality awareness or critical thinking skills.

It just goes to show that maintaining belief in nonsense takes work (fasting, testimony meetings, praying for answers you're already looking for, avoiding non-approved reading materials, etc, etc).

[_Dr. Shades]

[MODERATOR NOTE: Posts previously in this thread that dealt with the interpersonal conflict between Doctor Scratch and Jesse Pinkman have been split into the Telestial Forum.]