Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?

[_Rosebud]

The other thing that bugs me, Kish, is your need to moralize and summarize. Yet it's done without a synthesis of the issues at play that are unfamiliar to you. Shallow yet confident and authoritative. Like your protection of Nibley and minimization of Martha... done with such suave and confidence that it proves your own lack of comprehension of Martha's perspective.

cwald, the source was the thread as I stated above. (I don't see what KK has to do with this conversation. Her mention in the thread title was accidental. I think the poster meant to name Kristy Money.)

[_Kishkumen]

The other thing that bugs me, Kish, is your need to moralize and summarize. Yet it's done without a synthesis of the issues at play that are unfamiliar to you. Shallow yet confident and authoritative. Like your protection of Nibley and minimization of Martha... done with such suave and confidence that it proves your own lack of comprehension of Martha's perspective.

Ah, I see, so you can't deal with the facts. It's just a repetition of your opinion about my inability to understand.

Very revealing.

[_Rosebud]

Lemmie, I am glad you are a woman. I don't really have much more of a response than that because I don't think my perception of the differences between men and women is as extreme as you perceive it to be so I'm not quite sure what you're getting at when you repeat your perception that I should view men more similarly to how you do.

[_moksha]

Drama follows in every thread I have read dealing with anything JD.

Wonder if we could make the analogy that drama follows John Dehlin like donut crumbs follow Daniel C. Peterson.

[_Rosebud]

The other thing that bugs me, Kish, is your need to moralize and summarize. Yet it's done without a synthesis of the issues at play that are unfamiliar to you. Shallow yet confident and authoritative. Like your protection of Nibley and minimization of Martha... done with such suave and confidence that it proves your own lack of comprehension of Martha's perspective.

Ah, I see, so you can't deal with the facts. It's just a repetition of your opinion about my inability to understand.

Very revealing.

Roll eyes. Sleep well Kish.

Well.... it's bedtime on the East Coast.

[_Kishkumen]

Roll eyes. Sleep well Kish.

Well.... it's bedtime on the East Coast.

OK, so, now I know exactly how consistent you are in your respect and support for victims. Evidently, male victims aren't victims in your eyes.

[_Rosebud]

Roll eyes. Sleep well Kish.

Well.... it's bedtime on the East Coast.

OK, so, now I know exactly how consistent you are in your respect and support for victims. Evidently, male victims aren't victims in your eyes.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

-------

I realized I have one more thing I want to say before bed, though.

One thing I haven't been able to wrap my head around during this whole life drama is the significance of "sexual inter course" legally -- both in the "law of the land" and in the church. The sex itself, whether it did it did not happen, is so insignificant in comparison to all the other details, yet it's what courts, church or not, care about. I don't really get what that detail has to do with much of anything in comparison to the kinds of harm that occurred.

I suppose people are in need of some defined cutoff to give them instructions on how to understand a situation when in reality, the complexity of what occurred was so much more intense than whether or not some particular line had been crossed.

Maybe I'd get it more if I still believed sex was god's divine creative power, idk.

Anyway, I really am done with this drama and going to bed now.

[Guest]

Lemmie, I am glad you are a woman.

meaningless. My only point in mentioning it was to note that both genders were giving you similar feedback.

I don't really have much more of a response than that because I don't think my perception of the differences between men and women is as extreme as you perceive it to be

it is when every post you make contains some variation on "because you're a man you don't get it..."

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at when you repeat your perception that I should view men more similarly to how you do.

I never said that, let alone repeated it. But you give your bias away when you say "I should view men..."

My entire point was that you can't stereotype all men one way, nor all women one way.

[_Lemmie]

Roll eyes. Sleep well Kish.

Well.... it's bedtime on the East Coast.

OK, so, now I know exactly how consistent you are in your respect and support for victims. Evidently, male victims aren't victims in your eyes.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Are you serious? Did you even read the last page of posts? Hard to argue for people to be more understanding of your situation when you're that insensitive.

I realized I have one more thing I want to say before bed, though.

One thing I haven't been able to wrap my head around during this whole life drama is the significance of "sexual inter course" legally -- both in the "law of the land" and in the church. The sex itself, whether it did it did not happen, is so insignificant in comparison to all the other details, yet it's what courts, church or not, care about. I don't really get what that detail has to do with much of anything in comparison to the kinds of harm that occurred.

Guess you shouldn't have brought it up then.

[_Kishkumen]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Sure you don't. Selective vision?