Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

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_sock puppet
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _sock puppet »

Fence Sitter wrote:
cinepro wrote:[

The key point to emphasize is that when someone asks "What are the odds?", it isn't a rhetorical question. Ask them what the odds are, and if they don't know, then they need to keep thinking. If someone is suggesting that the unlikelihood of something happening proves the existence of God or the Holy Ghost, then ask them what, exactly, the odds must be in order to prove such a thing. What's the exact number? 1 in a million? 1 in a trillion? Every time someone wins the lottery, is that proof that God exists?

Believers will be aghast if you say "Yeah, I believe it happened, but it was probably just a coincidence with no divine intervention needed." It's easy to associate the feeling of something being extremely unlikely with something being orchestrated by a divine power. We're just wired that way.

Read the stories on these threads. There are coincidences that are way more unlikely that what Elder Holland described:



My wife's visiting teacher was over the other day. She usually brings her husband so we all just sit down and talk. Both are good people and I enjoy their company. The VT mentioned that the other day while she was visiting her inactive son in another part of town, the missionaries happened to knock on his door. She asked exactly that question "What are the odds?" and without pausing went right on to express her belief that it was a miracle.

I pointed out that her inactive son was on the rolls of the ward and that the odds were pretty good that he was going to get visits from the missionaries occasionally and that it was probably just coincidence that she was visiting her son at the same time the missionaries showed up. She remained firmly convinced that God was involved in the visit.

It's this type of mentality that is willing to believe God helps people find their car keys.

I wonder if god intervenes to help guide the hottie towards picking the elders quorum president's keys out of the bowl?
_I have a question
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _I have a question »

In summary
Eventually ending up in Southern California, he one day was sitting on the porch of a rented home when he saw two LDS missionaries making their way up the street.

“With a rush of memory and guilt, regret and rage, he despised the very sight of them,” Elder Holland recounted. “But he was safe, because he kept all visitors at bay by employing two Doberman Pinschers who viciously charged the gate every moment that anyone came near.”

The dogs startled the missionaries as they passed by and continued on, “our man on the porch laughing at the lovely little drama he had just witnessed, wishing only that the gate hadn’t restrained his two dogs.”

Then, the two elders stopped, looked at each other, conversed a little, “likely said a silent prayer,” then turned around and approached the gate.

“The Dobermans on cue charged the gate again, hit it, snarling, frothing, and then stopped in their tracks,” Elder Holland said. “They looked at the missionaries, dropped their heads, ambled back to the front steps and lay down.”

The man on the porch was speechless as they missionaries opened the gate, walked up the path and greeted him.

“One of the elders said, ‘Are you from this part of California?’

“The man said, ‘No. If you want to know, I’m from Pocatello, Idaho.’

“There was a pause. ‘That’s interesting,’ the elder said. ‘Do you know the [such-and-such] family in Pocatello?’

“With a stunned look, our biker paused, and then, in very measured words, said, ‘Yeah, I know them. They are my parents.’

“ ‘Well, they’re my parents too,’ the missionary said. ‘God has sent me to invite you to come home.’ ”

The younger brother had been born after the older boy had left home. The elder brother did not even know of him.

“Mom and Dad have been praying for you every morning and night for 20 years,” the younger brother said. “They were not sure you were alive, but they knew if you were, that someday you would come back to us.”

The wayward son invited the two in, and they talked for the rest of the day and some of the night. He did return home, returned to Church activity and, in March 2015, was married and sealed in the Boise Idaho Temple.
None of this^ happened. At all.

Commenting on the account, Elder Holland said, “This is a story of the role of Almighty God, the Savior of the World, and the Holy Ghost involved in the work of the ministry to which we’ve been called.
So this^ isn't an accurate conclusion.

“The Holy Ghost prompted those parents to keep praying, to keep believing, to keep trusting. . . . The Holy Ghost inspired that rebellious boy to come to himself like the prodigal he was and to head for California. . . . The Holy Ghost influenced that younger son to serve a mission and be willing to accept a call to Southern California. . . . The Holy Ghost inspired one of my brethren in the Twelve, who was on the assignment desk that Friday, to trust his impression and assign that young man for service not a great distance from his native-born state. The Holy Ghost inspired that mission president to assign that young missionary to that district and that member unit. The Holy Ghost led those missionaries to that street, that day, that hour, with big brother sitting on the porch waiting, and, with Doberman Pinschers notwithstanding, the Holy Ghost prompted those to elders to stop, talk and in spite of their fear, to go back and present their message.

^didn't happen.

“And, through the elders, the Holy Ghost taught repentance and brought true conversion to one coming back into the fold.”
^ didn't happen.

Elder Holland said the young elder, without realizing it, gave the missionary speech of all time, when he said to his brother, “God has sent me here to invite you to come home.”
^ isn't true.

However:
“We’re not a cult. I’m not an idiot, you know. I’ve read a couple of books and I’ve been to a pretty good school, and I have chosen to be in this church because of the faith that I feel and the inspiration that comes. I’ve met people, and if people want to call us a cult, they can call us a cult and you can call us a cult, but we are 14-million and growing, and I’d like to think that your respect for me would be enough to know that this man doesn’t seem like a dodo.”
^did happen.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_CameronMO
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _CameronMO »

Down the memory hole.

http://www.texashoustonsouthmission.com ... en-4-25-16

doesn't exist anymore. I wonder why?

Here's what it used to say:
In our many discussions at the seminar, Elder Holland shared an account, not too dissimilar from that of the prodigal son we read about in Luke 15. He told of a man that was born and raised in Southern Idaho, who had grown up in the Church, and had all the blessings of the gospel laid before him. In his late teens he decided he wanted his inheritance, of which there was none, jumped on his motorcycle, and moved to the Big Apple to find a more thrilling and better life. Never to think of family and home again, he was done with what he was taught to be true. Upon arriving in New York City, he began to sow a lifestyle of immorality, drug abuse, tattoos, and worldliness beyond reproach. While not necessarily happy, he supposed it was better than anything better he could be doing, so he sank deeper and deeper into a pit.

One morning he woke up and decided he'd had enough of New York and that he'd make a new start on the sunny beaches of Southern California. He rode his motorcycle on the long journey and intentionally drove as far away as he could from his small town in Idaho. Along the way he hooked up with a new motorcycle gang, and upon arriving in California, continued the party lifestyle, added more tattoos, and distanced himself further and further from who he had once been.

A few years went by and he made his home in a shabby part of town, guarded by his two Rottweilers, up to no good. One day a pair of Mormon missionaries were walking past his house, and as trained, the two vicious dogs leapt from the front porch and raced towards the sidewalk, only being held back by long chains around their neck and a fence that surrounded the yard. The dogs came barking, with teeth baring, saliva flying, and eager to keep all away. As wise missionaries, they of course avoided this particular house, no need to risk life and limb on trying to get into this door.

As they walked down street, some thirty yards down the road now, the senior companion looked at the junior and said, "we have to go back to that house." The junior companion, thinking his senior companion was absolutely insane, reluctantly followed his companion back towards certain death. As they approached the fence, the Rottweilers sprang from the porch and went into their usual attack mode. This time however, instead of trying to break the chains that held them back, they came to the fences edge, turned around, and went back and sat on the porch.

Seeing the dogs retreat, the emboldened elders passed through the gate, walked up to the porch, and knocked on the front door. The now heavily tattooed, twenty years older, and worn down by life man, opened the door and stared down the two missionaries. Unfazed by the image of the man in front of them, the elders began with the message they had come prepared to share and before they could get much out, he asked them where they were from. The junior companion said he was from a town in Utah, and the senior companion said he was from a small town in Southern Idaho. Surprised that this Idaho missionary was from the same part of the world he was from, he asked the missionary the name of the town, and was even more surprised to hear they were from the same town! Now interested, the man asked if the missionary knew about such and such a man from this small town. The missionary responded that he did know him. The man then said, "that is my father", and then the elder smiled and said, "he is my father too."

Elder Holland then went on to tell us that he's kept track of this man. He's now returned to Southern Idaho, tattoos and all, married, and soon to be sealed in the temple. His point in telling us this story was to remind us as mission presidents that God, not only knows his children, but he continues to watch over them. He stated, "Imagine what the transfer board in heaven must look like and what it must have taken to get this young elder, at this time in his life, to a place where he could rescue his brother. Imagine the prayers that came from his parents, who for years, had never given up hope. Imagine the inspiration that must have come to a mission president who knew where to assign a missionary to this particular area. Imagine what had to occur for the Spirit to prompt this senior companion to heed a prompting and return to an undesirable task." As only Elder Holland can tenderly teach us, it's because God loves each and every one of us and we should never forget it.

What did I take away from this truly remarkable account?

-We are all prodigals in some way or another, God never gives up on us, see the good in others, regardless of what the appearance might be on the outside.
-God sent you here, you are in the right mission, right area, with the right companion, all in an effort to rescue His sons and daughters.
-Open Your Mouth, in all places, at all times, you never know who God has prepared, and we can't miss a single opportunity.
-Fear no MAN, or dog (unless it's rabid and foaming at the mouth)
-When the Spirit speaks to you, act, the first prompting is always the one to follow. Feeling to the heart and thoughts to the mind.
-Be worthy, so the Spirit can work through you.
-Faith over fear, you are Disciples of Christ, this is God's work, not yours, have faith in the Savior and He will provide a way.
Trimble, you ignorant sack of rhinoceros puss. The only thing more obvious than your lack of education is the foul stench that surrounds you.
_Jonah
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _Jonah »

Sophocles wrote:Last week I had the opportunity to attend a major league baseball game for the first time this season. That night, the Miami Marlins broke their club record for runs scored in a 22-10 victory over the Texas Rangers. As it happens, Adrian Beltre was ejected from the game for the first time in his 20 year career. What are the odds that these two "firsts" would occur on the same night, and that it would also happen to be the same night I was in attendance, the only game I am likely to attend this season?

What are the odds?

I can't imagine what the odds are, so it must be a miracle. I only wish I knew what message God was trying to send me.

Where your “miracle” falls short of being an LDS-type faith promoting story is that it is missing that “personal” touch. Elevating it to such would require something along the lines of it being discovered that the umpire who ejected Beltre just happened to be Beltre’s long lost brother who he had never met before.

After the game the two are reunited in the Rangers’ clubhouse once they have gotten past Elvis Andrus' two ferocious pit bulls in the locker next to Beltre's. Since it just so happened to be “LDS Night” at the ballpark, a couple of missionaries were on hand to give them a quick “milk before meat” discussion and baptize them both in the whirlpool bath in the trainer’s room.

There, now you have a story that could attain LDS/Holland-esque stature. Ridiculous of course, yet there are some who will argue that it “could happen”, or there being a possibility of hitting a “spiritual powerball”. Ummm…yeah…this guy comes to mind - http://imgur.com/GsVCcEM

It doesn’t take “the spirit” to weed through and confirm these bull crap stories. Just a fraction of common sense will do…something that apparently our TBM friends (and Holland) lack.
Red flags look normal when you're wearing rose colored glasses.
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