Problematic John Dehlin, a short list

[Kukulkan]

2) I am partial to this point because I am not a huge fan of the whole 'life coaching' craze. I honestly wasn't even aware that John Dehlin did it until recently. He must be terrible at advertising it. Yeah, I agree that him touting his PhD and degrees is murky. To give him the benefit of the doubt in the link you shared to his coaching page he does share a link to a pdf that explains the difference between coaching and psychotherapy. But yes, murky indeed.

You need to compare this to what his website USED to say. Someone grabbed a screenshot before he changed it where it says

Information about his psychotherapy and coaching private practice can be found here. [link]

So it looks like he was advertising psychotherapy AND coaching.

Glad to hear he changed it then. I think the issue is that you assume nefarious intent. Is it possible that he never wanted to go through with the process of getting licensed because the coaching aspect of his career is minimal and fairly non-important? That MS is his main project and the coaching is something he does on the side? Like I said originally I didn't even know that he did 'life coaching'. He hasn't been actively advertising it on MS. Chances are he was offering it because he comes from a place of experience faith crisis wise, does have a background(a damn PhD) in counseling psychology, and wants to help people. I don't know why the assumption has to be that he is nefariously trying to scam people out of their money by not explicitly stating in the way you want whether or not he is officially licensed. He saw that maybe it could be misleading so he changed it. Good for him. That's what we want right? For him to better his ways?

[Kishkumen]

Glad to hear he changed it then. I think the issue is that you assume nefarious intent. Is it possible that he never wanted to go through with the process of getting licensed because the coaching aspect of his career is minimal and fairly non-important? That MS is his main project and the coaching is something he does on the side? Like I said originally I didn't even know that he did 'life coaching'. He hasn't been actively advertising it on MS. Chances are he was offering it because he comes from a place of experience faith crisis wise, does have a background(a damn PhD) in counseling psychology, and wants to help people. I don't know why the assumption has to be that he is nefariously trying to scam people out of their money by not explicitly stating in the way you want whether or not he is officially licensed. He saw that maybe it could be misleading so he changed it. Good for him. That's what we want right? For him to better his ways?

No. That’s just it. They don’t want that. They want him to leave. The decision has already been made, and they are waiting for the rest of us to agree that they are right that John must go. And they don’t really need us to agree. They just want it to be known that they were always right about John being wrong. They will comb through everything he does and shine the worst light on it. This is essentially a kind of coup attempt on a much smaller scale. The goal is to push John aside so others can be the heroes for pushing him aside and people can take his audience.

But, of course, there is a reason why they aren’t in his shoes right now. Because people frankly don’t like them. Because they are obviously strident phonies who are even more narcissistic and mentally unhealthy than John is. They just know and are able to play victim politics whereas John left himself wide open to being attacked from that angle. Along the way he chose to do things that made this inevitable. There was no way after the last year that this was not going to happen.

But I predict it will fail for the reasons I stated above.

[Kukulkan]

Glad to hear he changed it then. I think the issue is that you assume nefarious intent. Is it possible that he never wanted to go through with the process of getting licensed because the coaching aspect of his career is minimal and fairly non-important? That MS is his main project and the coaching is something he does on the side? Like I said originally I didn't even know that he did 'life coaching'. He hasn't been actively advertising it on MS. Chances are he was offering it because he comes from a place of experience faith crisis wise, does have a background(a damn PhD) in counseling psychology, and wants to help people. I don't know why the assumption has to be that he is nefariously trying to scam people out of their money by not explicitly stating in the way you want whether or not he is officially licensed. He saw that maybe it could be misleading so he changed it. Good for him. That's what we want right? For him to better his ways?

No. That’s just it. They don’t want that. They want him to leave. The decision has already been made, and they are waiting for the rest of us to agree that they are right that John must go. And they don’t really need us to agree. They just want it to be known that they were always right about John being wrong. They will comb through everything he does and shine the worst light on it. This is essentially a kind of coup attempt on a much smaller scale. The goal is to push John aside so others can be the heroes for pushing him aside and people can take his audience.

But, of course, there is a reason why they aren’t in his shoes right now. Because people frankly don’t like them. Because they are obviously strident phonies who are even more narcissistic and mentally unhealthy than John is. They just know and are able to play victim politics whereas John left himself wide open to being attacked from that angle. Along the way he chose to do things that made this inevitable. There was no way after the last year that this was not going to happen.

But I predict it will fail for the reasons I stated above.

If I ever had the chance at being a somebody I'll take a hard pass knowing this is what I would have to deal with.

[Kishkumen]

I stand by my view that notoriety is a harsh taskmaster. The life of peace, anonymity, and little drama is best.

[Esme]

Glad to hear he changed it then. I think the issue is that you assume nefarious intent. Is it possible that he never wanted to go through with the process of getting licensed because the coaching aspect of his career is minimal and fairly non-important? That MS is his main project and the coaching is something he does on the side? Like I said originally I didn't even know that he did 'life coaching'. He hasn't been actively advertising it on MS. Chances are he was offering it because he comes from a place of experience faith crisis wise, does have a background(a damn PhD) in counseling psychology, and wants to help people. I don't know why the assumption has to be that he is nefariously trying to scam people out of their money by not explicitly stating in the way you want whether or not he is officially licensed. He saw that maybe it could be misleading so he changed it. Good for him. That's what we want right? For him to better his ways?

JD could get in big trouble for practicing psychotherapy without a license. It was irresponsible of him to offer it on his website and for someone with a PhD in the field, he absolutely should have known better.

The reason people feel squicky about what he’s doing now is because he gets the *shine* of having a PhD but without the accountability of the license.

So people think “Oooh, I can get access to his PhD knowledge and skills!” It might attract people to his services and they might put greater trust in him and his abilities.

But if he does something inappropriate or unethical, there is no “Life Coaching Board” to report him to. People don’t have the security of a body that creates standards, enforces regulations, and imposes consequences.

He gets the *clout* while escaping the responsibility.

Does he HAVE to get his license? No.
Is he prohibited from doing life coaching? Also no.

But those are the reasons some people don’t feel good about what he’s doing now.

[Kishkumen]

Yes, I am sure people are “concerned” about John’s “problematic” life coaching. After all, many are too stupid to tell the difference between life coaching and psychotherapy, which are two terms that look practically the same. And, yes, I think it is really irresponsible to engage in life coaching when all you have is a PhD in clinical and counseling psychology instead of a six-month long certificate program and a GED. If I were shopping for a life coach, I’d go for the latter kind of help and feel very reassured that I didn’t go with that unqualified dude with the PhD in psych. I don’t know how he lives with himself. Can you imagine what kind of sociopathic “mental health” practitioner Natasha Helfer must be to deal with him as he carries on with occasional life-coaching sessions?

Some people.

[Lem]

After all, many are too stupid to tell the difference between life coaching and psychotherapy, which are two terms that look practically the same.

Apparently Dehlin was for a time.

[Kishkumen]

Apparently Dehlin was for a time.

You mean, when he put the two terms next to each other on his list of services? No, Lem, listing them as two separate things means he does know there is a difference.

[dastardly stem]

Yes? I thought this was something that bothered a lot of us because we didn’t think it should be that way. You know, like the Kingdom of God is not GM? Now you are saying, what? That John Dehlin should be expected to act like the ideal church the LDS Church failed to be?

I pointed out other similarities between religion and John's business. I admit though any business, or church for that matter, set up to help people, whether it be religion, life coaching, or medium seance-ing is schemey as I see it. As soon as it produces devoted followers who tell everyone else that someone saved their life, or gave them eternal life,, with their dogma or special practices I immediately think scheme. Can't help it, I've trained my mind to be skeptical. It becomes a bit of a thin line, for sure, because there are, at least, useful and non-self-aggrandizing legitimate ways to help those who are beleaguered. Just not so convinced MS meets that criteria. There is good produced as with the tarot card reader down the street, so it's hard to get too worked up about it, but not sure that solves much.

[Kishkumen]

I pointed out other similarities between religion and John's business. I admit though any business, or church for that matter, set up to help people, whether it be religion, life coaching, or medium seance-ing is schemey as I see it. As soon as it produces devoted followers who tell everyone else that someone saved their life, or gave them eternal life,, with their dogma or special practices I immediately think scheme. Can't help it, I've trained my mind to be skeptical. It becomes a bit of a thin line, for sure, because there are, at least, useful and non-self-aggrandizing legitimate ways to help those who are beleaguered. Just not so convinced MS meets that criteria. There is good produced as with the tarot card reader down the street, so it's hard to get too worked up about it, but not sure that solves much.

Yeah, I know you pointed out other similarities as you saw them, but I don't know what they add to the discussion. You're going to have to help me here, because it feels like the thread of the discussion is getting lost. Instead of expecting more of the LDS Church, which promises eternal rewards and expects its members to stay faithful and paying ten percent of their income until they die, you expect more of John Dehlin who provides some resources for people as they transition from belief to non-belief, or helps spouses deal with that problem. Dehlin's business is much more limited by design and promises much less than exaltation in the next world. Those don't seem to be very comparable business models at all.