WITNESSES CRASHES AND BURNS!

[dastardly stem]

Thank you for the detailed review and comments, dastardly stem. If you were rating it on a scale of 0-5 stars, how many stars would you give it?

Oh a 1 to 1.5

[Moksha]

Would a person without some Mormon knowledge know that an angel was implied? Or would they think something else?

It would depend on whether they combined it with the notes from Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

[Doctor Scratch]

2 hours ago "Witnesses" tells a powerful story with humor, honesty, and emotion. It frankly acknowledges difficult issues such as the advent of plural marriage and the failure of the Kirtland Bank, as well as bruised egos in the early history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Against a background that mingles friendship, family, and remarkable spiritual manifestations with violent persecution, enormous internal and external stress, interpersonal strife, and even alienation, the continued insistence by Oliver Cowdery, Martin Harris, and David Whitmer that they, with Joseph Smith, had seen an angel and the golden plates and had literally heard the voice of God is deeply impressive. So is the fact that a movie as good and as visually beautiful as this one was created on what was, by Hollywood standards, an extremely modest budget. That's a tribute to Mark Goodman, James Jordan, Russell Richins, and to the wonderful people who worked with them.

exactly why Stem is unfortunately, probably right. They started the project with the review in mind they wanted to achieve, and that became the blueprint for the movie. This is unreal; read Stem's report, and then read this review. it's as if they literally tossed something in front of the camera to get these takeaway points made by a hypothetical impressed viewer. "we've got to cover our bases on x, y and z" -- "check, check, and check"

Maybe this is my fault for not giving them more to work with at the outset of the film. I guess this is the predictable outcome and I admit I didn't see it coming.

For an example of a film just shy of a masterpiece about a person and their faith, and made by a person of faith, watch Robert Duvall's 1997 film, The Apostle. Roger Ebert gave it 4/4 stars. I wasn't expecting much when I sat back to watch it years ago when it came on HBO or something, and it totally blew me away.

Doctor Robbers:

Didn't you predict--clear back when the movie was in the pre-production stage--that they would fail to depict the supernatural? I.e., that there would be no visuals of angels, no deer Jesus, nothing "risky" in that vein? It looks like you were right! I bet the Rotten Tomato-Meter would be way higher if they had taken those sorts of narrative risks.

[Philo Sofee]

exactly why Stem is unfortunately, probably right. They started the project with the review in mind they wanted to achieve, and that became the blueprint for the movie. This is unreal; read Stem's report, and then read this review. it's as if they literally tossed something in front of the camera to get these takeaway points made by a hypothetical impressed viewer. "we've got to cover our bases on x, y and z" -- "check, check, and check"

Maybe this is my fault for not giving them more to work with at the outset of the film. I guess this is the predictable outcome and I admit I didn't see it coming.

For an example of a film just shy of a masterpiece about a person and their faith, and made by a person of faith, watch Robert Duvall's 1997 film, The Apostle. Roger Ebert gave it 4/4 stars. I wasn't expecting much when I sat back to watch it years ago when it came on HBO or something, and it totally blew me away.

Doctor Robbers:

Didn't you predict--clear back when the movie was in the pre-production stage--that they would fail to depict the supernatural? I.e., that there would be no visuals of angels, no deer Jesus, nothing "risky" in that vein? It looks like you were right! I bet the Rotten Tomato-Meter would be way higher if they had taken those sorts of narrative risks.

Ha! Dontcha just hate it when the Mormons are also showed up when it comes to true prophecy?

[dastardly stem]

Nice review Stem. I liked the anticipation you created at the beginning while in the empty theater, waiting for it to start. Pretty surreal.

I have to admit I felt your letdown through your walkthrough. I think my anticipation was, what on earth are they going to put in this thing? I think you answered that question and it doesn't leave us with much.

I have no vested interest in the movie being bad, I was hoping that it would be "pretty good". I hope your review was biased, but honestly, I get the feeling you told it pretty much like it was. A walkthrough of incidents that happened using worn tropes, and with no real point.

One of the trailers gave me an idea, an analysis that I'd like to do but it would require coherence and reasonable plot development. Felt like I was losing the signal in your review. I think a movie could technically be propaganda and still on one level, be an engaging movie. In order to show the problem of the Mopologetic idea behind the movie requires the movie to be good enough such that it "holds the signal" such to be criticized. If it's just a meandering series of didactic scenes, then I'm going to lose out on an opportunity.

All that is to say, I hope you're wrong, Stem.

Thanks for the comments venerable dean. I too was quite hopeful and I must confess there was an elemet of let down inherent in my review that may skew it to the negative some.

I think I was fairly accurate to the extent I put into it. It was a bit clumsy in how it came together. I'd think that means it'd be hard for most to follow. Too much effort went into trying to expose the weakness of the 3, oddly, trying to justify their excommunication. In the end I'd say that too took from the ultimate point, which is resting the plates on their testimony. I don't see how the movie could do much to convince anyone. I wouldn't expect that, but it's nice to see the faithful give it the old college try at least.

Anyway, I'm no movie critic so I encourage yu to hold out hope that I'm wrong.

[IHAQ]

When Oliver confronted Joseph about fanny, he responds to Oliver with a claim that they were sealed by the power of God. Of course were aware that conflicts with the timing. The sealing power came later.

This, along with the inaccurate portrayal of Joseph using the hat, mark this film as being deliberately dishonest. It shows the Exec. Co. Prod. is too embarrassed about those two things to give an accurate rendering in a film he touted as being an honest portrayal of controversial aspects.

[Gadianton]

Didn't you predict--clear back when the movie was in the pre-production stage--that they would fail to depict the supernatural? I.e., that there would be no visuals of angels, no deer Jesus, nothing "risky" in that vein? It looks like you were right! I bet the Rotten Tomato-Meter would be way higher if they had taken those sorts of narrative risks.

Yes! And I did note that Stem confirmed my prediction, but I'm not one to brag so didn't bring it up. Plus, it wasn't all that satisfying because my interests in the film eventually shifted to another angle that I'm not sure is going to pan out. We'll have to see. But yeah, recall that one suggestion I had was to show Moroni who is at Kolob, his home, enter a wormhole to tunnel through the universe and then pop out in the grove. Animals and birds scatter and greenery is scorched. Maybe a few unfortunate birds vaporize. Recall, it's hugely important to show Moroni impact the material world so that it's understood it's not a subjective experience. Well, if you show Moroni speeding through the universe at light speed and burning the sh*t out of the sacred grove on impact, you're damn right it's going to sell more tickets.

[Gadianton]

I see Witnesses available in my home theater in CA. Also available in a private watch party for $249.00. Tempting...

Don't be a sucker Dr. Moore, I know you've got the cash to burn, but dasterdly stem got the entire theater to himself for $7.50.

[Gadianton]

Too much effort went into trying to expose the weakness of the 3, oddly, trying to justify their excommunication. In the end I'd say that too took from the ultimate point, which is resting the plates on their testimony.

you're depressing me, stem. I'm sure you're right about this. You can't not be.

2. Someone (the reporter) said David Whitmer seems like a pretty honest person, at least late in his life.

but then you gave me hope with this. omg. this might come together as I thought it would.

[Moksha]

Dr. Peterson announced that work on the next documentary, on the eight witnesses, has already begun.