Peterson and Gee's libel against Ritner?

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_dartagnan
_Emeritus
Posts: 2750
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:27 pm

Post by _dartagnan »

Analytics,

Maybe she thinks she has, or that since she is so obviously right that she doesn't need to?


She hasn’t, because I have asked her for examples for a long time now and she never produces. What makes her “obviously” right if she cannot produce a single example? What if I said she was a liar and a lesbian. I don’t need to produce any examples or evidence to back it up? You’re only encouraging her to continue with these types of attacks.

It is easier to make general accusations of “misrepresentation” and using your own indignation as evidence, but that in itself is not evidence that a misrepresentation has occurred. One cannot be misrepresenting someone if they never tried to represent them in the first place. When I emailed those sociologists I never mentioned her name. I never even referred to any specific argument she made. She explicitly accuses me of emailing false information to various scholars. Yet, if this is true, then she should have no problems producing a single example. For her to keep dodging this obligation is not only cowardly, but dishonest as well.

And as far as her theory that both could be right, the problem with this is that Ritner considered it slander. Ritner was intimately involved in this situation and he doesn’t believe he and Peterson can both be right, so Juliann’s hypothetical is undermined on that point.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_dartagnan
_Emeritus
Posts: 2750
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:27 pm

Post by _dartagnan »

If you or anyone else is interested, here is a thread dealing with the controversy at the time. Notice the email I sent didn't mention Julian whatsoever, but Juliann used the email to argue that I was trying to represent her, and since she never argued what the email said, that I was sending "false" information. She is such an idiot! All I did was send out a few inquiries and request for clarification on some points. Juliann's head is so big she thinks everything must always be about her.

http://mormondiscussions.com/discuss/vi ... .php?t=577

And here is a more detailed follow-up thread started by me: http://mormondiscussions.com/discuss/vi ... .php?t=585
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_Runtu
_Emeritus
Posts: 16721
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:06 am

Post by _Runtu »

dartagnan wrote:If you or anyone else is interested, here is a thread dealing with the controversy at the time. Notice the email I sent didn't mention Julian whatsoever, but Juliann used the email to argue that I was trying to represent her, and since she never argued what the email said, that I was sending "false" information. She is such an idiot! All I did was send out a few inquiries and request for clarification on some points. Juliann's head is so big she thinks everything must always be about her.

http://mormondiscussions.com/discuss/vi ... .php?t=577

And here is a more detailed follow-up thread started by me: http://mormondiscussions.com/discuss/vi ... .php?t=585


Apparently, you are on the cutting edge of a new anti-Mormon tactic to destroy apologists.

I'm beginning to think that people take this stuff way too seriously.
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_dartagnan
_Emeritus
Posts: 2750
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:27 pm

Post by _dartagnan »

The best part about this whole thing was when Mauss sent me an email that Juliann had sent him!! Whoops, she wasn't expecting that! But I am glad he did because it gave us an unexpected, yet very telling, inside peep into the kinds of things Juliann had been saying to him.

In it she accused me of "taunting" the Mormons with "stories of sending emails."

What the bloody hell?? Juliann is lying through her teeth and this constitutes a perfect example.

Taunting? Telling stories? I said I received an email. I gave no details about what it said. I didn't taunt anyone with it. I mentioned it at the tail end of my post before signing off because it just came to mind. I said I would provide it if given permission to do so. This is "telling stories"? She was obviously desperate to offer subtle aspersion about me, obviously trying to dissuade Mauss from having further contact with me. She was posioning the well as she always does.

Now I know why Juliann was so anxious to read the email I sent out. She projected, assuming I would have made up all sorts of nonsense just because that is what she would and did do!

This is all detailed in the second link I provided above. It is hilarious because Juliann never provided her emails as she insisted I should do. Instead she refers to her correspondence as a "conversation"so we would think her claims were not based in an email exchange at all.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_Analytics
_Emeritus
Posts: 4231
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:24 pm

Post by _Analytics »

dartagnan wrote:Analytics,

Maybe she thinks she has, or that since she is so obviously right that she doesn't need to?


She hasn’t, because I have asked her for examples for a long time now and she never produces. What makes her “obviously” right if she cannot produce a single example....


Just to make sure I'm being clear, my hypothesis is that the thoughts bouncing around in her head are literally incoherent; I'm claiming that when she reads All Abraham's Children or whatever, she recognizes the existence of the logical arguments, but then the whole thing gets mangled as it bounces around in her head. She then attempts to appy the theory to exMormons. As she does this, it is the mangled, incoherent version of the theory she is trying to use, and she just doesn't have the mental capability to rationally analyze the subtle details and see if the shoe fits.

My basis for making this harsh criticism is how consistent her terrible reasoning is in everything from her I read. And the tone of her righteous indignation indicates that she isn't knowlingly bluffing, but that she actually believes her points are valid. I wouldn't expect such a person to be capable of writing a masters thesis without some serious hand-holding.

So anyway, I totally agree with you that she hasn't proven her point. I just don't think she is smart enough to know that. As far as cohorts, they range from those who know you are right but keep silent for partisan purposes, to those who only casually read the arguments and assume that she is right, to a few who can't think well enough to correctly analyze it.

I suppose I'd rather call somebody dumb than call somebody dishonest.
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.

-Yuval Noah Harari
_dartagnan
_Emeritus
Posts: 2750
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:27 pm

Post by _dartagnan »

So what you're saying is that she's too stupid to be dishonest.

I never thought I'd say this, but Juliann is not that stupid.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_Analytics
_Emeritus
Posts: 4231
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:24 pm

Post by _Analytics »

dartagnan wrote:So what you're saying is that she's too stupid to be dishonest.

I never thought I'd say this, but Juliann is not that stupid.


The thing is, her wrongness about this is easily verifiable. It's one thing to lie about something where you can't be proven wrong. It is something else to lie about something where you are easily proven wrong. If she were deliberately lying, who is she lying to? Who is she trying to fool? Does she think these people are so stupid they won't be able to see through the lies?
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.

-Yuval Noah Harari
_harmony
_Emeritus
Posts: 18195
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:35 am

Post by _harmony »

Analytics wrote:
dartagnan wrote:So what you're saying is that she's too stupid to be dishonest.

I never thought I'd say this, but Juliann is not that stupid.


The thing is, her wrongness about this is easily verifiable. It's one thing to lie about something where you can't be proven wrong. It is something else to lie about something where you are easily proven wrong. If she were deliberately lying, who is she lying to? Who is she trying to fool? Does she think these people are so stupid they won't be able to see through the lies?


I can answer that one: yes. She thinks everyone why disagrees with her is stupid.

Ask her what a transcript is.
_dartagnan
_Emeritus
Posts: 2750
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:27 pm

Post by _dartagnan »

Does she think these people are so stupid they won't be able to see through the lies?


Unfortunately yes, she probably thinks this. But perhaps more unfortunate is the fact that some people really don't see through it. It is the same reason most people over there don't accept any evidence that contradicts current Book of Abraham apologetics. It is the same reason Pacman said no amount of evidence could convince him the Book of Abraham wasn't an ancient text. It is the same reason people say the missing papyrus theory is the only theory with evidence. In a forum where people are used to cog-dis and denial, the next best thing besides blindly defending the Church is to blindly defend a fellow apologist. Juliann outranks most people there. She is one of the FAIR founders. She doesn't speak much, but when she does it is obvious her little followers come out of the woodwork and cheer her on. When she is made to look like an idiot - as is often the case - these same people go into confirmation bias mode and block it out, all the while jumping through mental hoops to make Juliann out to be some kind of apologetic hero.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_moksha
_Emeritus
Posts: 22508
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:42 pm

Post by _moksha »

moksha wrote:Here is one item I do have some curiosity about, Juliann (@ MAD) said Kevin sent emails to her Professors about her. Why would something like this ever occur?


Was this addressed and I just missed it?
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
Post Reply