1 Nephi 14:10-12 'There are save two churchds only'

[_Inconceivable]

18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join.. ..I asked the Personages.. which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them;.. ..I then said to my mother, "I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true." It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me?..

(Pearl of Great Price | JS-History 1:18 - 20)

So, taken at face value (I mean, if I were uneducated, of course), what did the Mormon Jesus define as the Adversarie's kindom?


The Mormon church is THE only true Kingdom of the Mormon God. All the rest fall short of the saving ordinances because they lack His Mormon authority.

Mormon
Mormon
Mormon

It's easy, just look for the trademark of authenticity.

If His sheep hear his voice, the Mormon Jesus only has Mormon sheep.

[_Polygamy Porter]

Hi Charity,
So, which of the 40 or more sects of Mormonism that believes in the Book of Mormon, is the one and true Church of the Lamb of God??.

Go easy, she is old(er) and probably does not know about the "other" Mormon sects that are not in the news...

[_Mercury]

the word whore cuts deep, wounds, and is very offensive.

I am going to start a campaign to change that word whore to witch. If they can change the word white then they can change the word whore.

Do you object to such a term applied to the church of the devil? I mean, we wouldn't want to hurt his feelings, I guess.

What is the church of the devil exactly? Catholicism? What if I called you a whore?

[_Zoidberg]

1 Ne. 14: 10-12 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.

What is your objection to this?

Ummm.. yeah, okay.

I suppose you would classify me as a member of the devil's church even though the church you consider Christ's still counts me as a member.

But really, this is absurd. I am not a member of the devil's church. I've never met him or his representatives and never sent in any membership fees to his organization (I was a full tithe payer until recently, however). Perhaps that's because I haven't had my name removed. But what about before I became a member? And I've been an atheist. What about before you became a member? Were you a member of the church of the devil? But didn't know it?

This passage seems pretty clear to me, and I think you are pulling the interpretation of applying it on an individual basis out of some unmentionable place. This says that if you are not a member of the x church, you are a member of the church of the devil, not that your idea of how to appropriately worship God can be "close enough" even if you are a Catholic.

Unless you meant to say that there are members of the Church of the devil among those who are officially LDS.

If you think that burning crosses constitutes hate (and who does it really harm? does it go back in time and add more suffering to Jesus somehow?), I fail to see why you think that anti-gay or anti-equal rights lobby that is intended to bring forth much more substantial results is not hateful.

Authoritarians are notorious for having double standards.

Who is more likely to be a good member of the LDS church? Someone who has had religious training and has a tradition of worship and service? Or an absolute libertine who has not a clue about religion or what it means to live by a moral code?

You should ask this question to DCP. He's the one that likes to bring up how universal moral grammar somehow testifies of our divine origin.

Haven't we all got the light of Christ, charity?

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but even absolute libertines are not exempt from biological morality or trying to somehow codify their principles. It's human nature to look for order and rationality where there is none.

[_charity]

So, for 44 years I heard Mormon Jesus' voice and now what am I hearing, Charity? After this long wouldn't you think I would become familiar with His voice?? The 90 and 9 have no different ears than I do.

If you had been hearing His voice, and you deliberately chose to leave the flock, then you are in a world of hurt. Most likely, you never heard His voice in the first place. I would prefer to think that. Because then you are truly just a lost sheep. Maybe you will listen someday.

Charity, I'm discovering that you know a whole lot about nothing. The majority of sheep joining the church are poor and uneducated. That is why nations with a higher per capita of the educated have little success. You will discover in those areas that it is mainly poor imigrants that join as well so even the general stats are skewed. Ask any returned missionary where he had greatest success in numbers taught and baptised. Afluent and educated areas are a deathnail to a missionary that wants to teach and baptise. Here is a simple example: South America vs United States (subtract the babies born into the church and you'll have a horrific deficite).

I didn't say there weren't any poor and uneducated people who were baptized. I just said you don't know what the numbers are because you don't have any statistical information. You can go about blathering a lot about how "everybody knows", etc. and it doesn't mean much. I am sure in terms of proportion there are more poor and uneducated people who join the Church than rich and educated, because DUH there are more poor and uneducated people in the world than there are rich and educated. But there are educated, affluent people who join the Church, too.

Even the Boof of Mormon states that the rich and educated are more prone to reject the Mormon Jesus' voice, you should read it.

Honestly, with some of the comments you've made in several threads, I think you're just having fun pulling our legs.

Who? Me?

[_charity]

So, taken at face value (I mean, if I were uneducated, of course), what did the Mormon Jesus define as the Adversarie's kindom?


The Mormon church is THE only true Kingdom of the Mormon God. All the rest fall short of the saving ordinances because they lack His Mormon authority.

It's easy, just look for the trademark of authenticity.

If His sheep hear his voice, the Mormon Jesus only has Mormon sheep.

The Adversary's kingdom is anyone and any organization which fights against the Lord and His Church.

There are churches which teach of Christ, teach people to love God and to serve their fellow man. They aren't fighting agaisnt Him. They are leading people to Him. Anyone who follows them will achieve a higher place in the Kingdom when all is said and done.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only church which has the fullness of the Gospel on the earth. And the honest in heart will someday have the full saving ordinances and can become exalted.

[_charity]

the word whore cuts deep, wounds, and is very offensive.

I am going to start a campaign to change that word whore to witch. If they can change the word white then they can change the word whore.

Do you object to such a term applied to the church of the devil? I mean, we wouldn't want to hurt his feelings, I guess.

What is the church of the devil exactly? Catholicism? What if I called you a whore?

I guess I have to type more slowly when I answer your question. You keep not reading my answers.

The church of the devil is any church which fights against Christ.

And guess waht, it doesn't even have to be a formal organization with a building and a name on the door. ANYONE or ANY THING which fights against Christ is the church of the devil.

And if you called me a bad name I didn't deserve, I would think you were a rude little boy whose mother didn't teach him his manners.

Oh, by the way, a prostitute shouldn't object to a descriptive word used to refer to her. She earned it.

[_dartagnan]

Your generalization about well adjusted and well educated people not joining the Church is without foundation.

But the generalization about well informed people not joining the Church is with foundation.

I can give you a number of examples of well adjusted, well educated people joining the Church as adults.

But you can give us no examples of well informed people joining the Church as adults.

[_charity]

I suppose you would classify me as a member of the devil's church even though the church you consider Christ's still counts me as a member.

Are you fighting against Christ? If yes, then I guess that means you are.


But really, this is absurd. I am not a member of the devil's church. I've never met him or his representatives and never sent in any membership fees to his organization (I was a full tithe payer until recently, however). Perhaps that's because I haven't had my name removed. But what about before I became a member? And I've been an atheist. What about before you became a member? Were you a member of the church of the devil? But didn't know it?

You are trying to be silly and divert attention from the topic. I am sure you aren't stuck in concrete operational thought and can't handle the abstract concept of "membership" in an organization without a building to meet in. Come on. Don't look so wide eyed and innocent. I'm not buying it.

This passage seems pretty clear to me, and I think you are pulling the interpretation of applying it on an individual basis out of some unmentionable place. This says that if you are not a member of the x church, you are a member of the church of the devil, not that your idea of how to appropriately worship God can be "close enough" even if you are a Catholic.

The prophet is obviously referring to something that goes beyond buildings to meet in. You know that and are just trying to twist the words to make the meaning obscure.

Unless you meant to say that there are members of the Church of the devil among those who are officially LDS.

I think there probably are. There are some people who are apostate and operating under the radar. Wolves in sheep's clothing.

If you think that burning crosses constitutes hate (and who does it really harm? does it go back in time and add more suffering to Jesus somehow?), I fail to see why you think that anti-gay or anti-equal rights lobby that is intended to bring forth much more substantial results is not hateful.

I am sure you aren't listening, but anything which leads people away from God is a detriment to individual progess. Since God has commanded men (and women) not to practice homosexuality, anything which encourages or permits homosexuality is of the church of the devil. Any effort to help save people from that is not hateful, it is trying to help.

Oh, yes, I would think that anyone who paid dues to any pro-homosexual organization, has their names on the membership list, supports their activities, yep. That is one of the devil's churches.Authoritarians are notorious for having double standards.

Who is more likely to be a good member of the LDS church? Someone who has had religious training and has a tradition of worship and service? Or an absolute libertine who has not a clue about religion or what it means to live by a moral code?

You should ask this question to DCP. He's the one that likes to bring up how universal moral grammar somehow testifies of our divine origin.

Haven't we all got the light of Christ, charity?

We all did at one time. Some have covered it over with so many layers of sinful mud it doesn't shine any more. People fight their consciences until they kill them all the time.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but even absolute libertines are not exempt from biological morality or trying to somehow codify their principles. It's human nature to look for order and rationality where there is none.

Yep. Even the devil and angels fear and tremble.

[_charity]

Your generalization about well adjusted and well educated people not joining the Church is without foundation.

But the generalization about well informed people not joining the Church is with foundation.

I can give you a number of examples of well adjusted, well educated people joining the Church as adults.

But you can give us no examples of well informed people joining the Church as adults.

I get it. Well informed people don't join the Church because if they join the Church that proves they are not well informed.

Circular reasoning, Kevin. Shame on you. You know better.