Okay, do I need to explain what communism is? It is NOT the control of the many in the hands of the few- it is the EXTREME opposite of fascism! I want to say "good grief" ;) But I'll resist.
Are you actually serious about this? I thought I read here that you said, communism is not the control of the many in the hands of the few. Perhaps I need new glasses...
And this is why Americans (with barrelomonkeys and a few other chosen people being a notable exception) piss me off. I'm pretty sure you're American, right? Coggins, your ignorance and Cold War brainwashing are an embarrassment which you should keep to yourself instead of making them public knowledge. I could perhaps excuse your inability to differentiate between socialism and communism (since most Americans can't), but lumping communism together with fascism because a few countries that claimed to subscribe to various political ideologies happened to be totalitarian in practice is plain moronic. Just because Nazism started out as national socialism does not mean that fascism and communism are similar ideologies.
I'm so glad I haven't been following this thread. I try to get rid of my stereotypes, but they just keep getting reinforced.
Zoidberg wrote:And this is why Americans (with barrelomonkeys and a few other chosen people being a notable exception) piss me off. I'm pretty sure you're American, right? Coggins, your ignorance and Cold War brainwashing are an embarrassment which you should keep to yourself instead of making them public knowledge. I could perhaps excuse your inability to differentiate between socialism and communism (since most Americans can't), but lumping communism together with fascism because a few countries that claimed to subscribe to various political ideologies happened to be totalitarian in practice is plain moronic. Just because Nazism started out as national socialism does not mean that fascism and communism are similar ideologies.
I'm so glad I haven't been following this thread. I try to get rid of my stereotypes, but they just keep getting reinforced.
Yes, many Americans do have a hard time separating Communism from Stalinism, much less from Socialism. When I was in grad school, Terry Eagleton came to BYU to talk about Marxist literary theory, and the leading lights from BYU wanted only to talk about the fall of Eastern European Stalinism and wondered how he could still be a Marxist in the face of that. I thought it was kind of embarrassing.
Zoidberg wrote:And this is why Americans (with barrelomonkeys and a few other chosen people being a notable exception) piss me off. I'm pretty sure you're American, right? Coggins, your ignorance and Cold War brainwashing are an embarrassment which you should keep to yourself instead of making them public knowledge. I could perhaps excuse your inability to differentiate between socialism and communism (since most Americans can't), but lumping communism together with fascism because a few countries that claimed to subscribe to various political ideologies happened to be totalitarian in practice is plain moronic. Just because Nazism started out as national socialism does not mean that fascism and communism are similar ideologies.
I'm so glad I haven't been following this thread. I try to get rid of my stereotypes, but they just keep getting reinforced.
Yes, many Americans do have a hard time separating Communism from Stalinism, much less from Socialism. When I was in grad school, Terry Eagleton came to BYU to talk about Marxist literary theory, and the leading lights from BYU wanted only to talk about the fall of Eastern European Stalinism and wondered how he could still be a Marxist in the face of that. I thought it was kind of embarrassing.
It's because they read a bunch of gobblygook pontificaters, or see them on tv often, where they confuse the two. Then they come on bulletin boards and tell me how I don't get it. ;)
barrelomonkeys wrote:Okay, but let me just make a serious statement about this for a moment. Marx viewed capitalism as an extreme form where there were no protections or rights for workers. Human rights must be checked against the social darwinism seen in pure capitalism. With capitalism left unchecked I could see that revolution may result.
Quite. Marx failed to recognize that the capitalists would realize that they could curtail the working classes taking power by allowing a welfare state, minimum wages, worker safety, health benefits, and all the other things that pure capitalism would deem excessive (ie would cut into the profits) :) So the capitalists were smart in curtailing the worst habits of capitalism.
Often we see countries being put on the spot that they must temper their human rights violations (not enough for my liking) to enter the global trade. Of course this could go into an entire debate on the good ole USA and where it stands in its own treatment of prisoners of war etc... oh sheesh. You're gonna really get ole Coggins riled. ;)
Yeah...Capitalism is going to have an interesting effect over the next few decades in places like China. Sure it claims to be a communist state, but it's really a military oligarchy. It would be very ironic if capitalism were to help overthrow the communist regime in China :OD
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
Zoidberg wrote:And this is why Americans (with barrelomonkeys and a few other chosen people being a notable exception) piss me off. I'm pretty sure you're American, right? Coggins, your ignorance and Cold War brainwashing are an embarrassment which you should keep to yourself instead of making them public knowledge. I could perhaps excuse your inability to differentiate between socialism and communism (since most Americans can't), but lumping communism together with fascism because a few countries that claimed to subscribe to various political ideologies happened to be totalitarian in practice is plain moronic. Just because Nazism started out as national socialism does not mean that fascism and communism are similar ideologies.
I'm so glad I haven't been following this thread. I try to get rid of my stereotypes, but they just keep getting reinforced.
Yes, many Americans do have a hard time separating Communism from Stalinism, much less from Socialism. When I was in grad school, Terry Eagleton came to BYU to talk about Marxist literary theory, and the leading lights from BYU wanted only to talk about the fall of Eastern European Stalinism and wondered how he could still be a Marxist in the face of that. I thought it was kind of embarrassing.
Yes...somebody needs to explain to the American public (who are in general a lot of morons, but I digress) that:
Leninism was a terrible attempt to push a bastard form of socialism on a society that didn't meet Marx's qualifications (Russia was still largely an ignorant agrarian society with a small middle class and had barely any type of industrial revolution and thus didn't have the proletariat) for a Socialist revolution.
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
barrelomonkeys wrote:Uh, I think the American public could do with a quick course on our own Republic before we try to fill their heads with too much else. ;)
What?? And make them miss the Amazing Race? You obviously don't have a clue what the priorities of the American public are. ;)
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
barrelomonkeys wrote:Uh, I think the American public could do with a quick course on our own Republic before we try to fill their heads with too much else. ;)
What?? And make them miss the Amazing Race? You obviously don't have a clue what the priorities of the American public are. ;)
barrelomonkeys wrote:Uh, I think the American public could do with a quick course on our own Republic before we try to fill their heads with too much else. ;)
What?? And make them miss the Amazing Race? You obviously don't have a clue what the priorities of the American public are. ;)
Heh. I had a long-running conversation with a friend from England who was always going on about how ignorant Americans are of the world outside the US. I pretty much agreed, but then she said that I was wrong for denigrating the "ethos" of my country. That kind of pissed me off, so I started talking about how ignorant the British are about America (she couldn't, for example, place Salt Lake City on a map, even though the Winter Olympics were going on at that time), its people, and its culture. Come to think of it, I said, British people tend not to know much about the Western Hemisphere (she thought Bolivia was in Central America). She suddenly got very defensive.
barrelomonkeys wrote:Uh, I think the American public could do with a quick course on our own Republic before we try to fill their heads with too much else. ;)
What?? And make them miss the Amazing Race? You obviously don't have a clue what the priorities of the American public are. ;)
Heh. I had a long-running conversation with a friend from England who was always going on about how ignorant Americans are of the world outside the US. I pretty much agreed, but then she said that I was wrong for denigrating the "ethos" of my country. That kind of pissed me off, so I started talking about how ignorant the British are about America (she couldn't, for example, place Salt Lake City on a map, even though the Winter Olympics were going on at that time), its people, and its culture. Come to think of it, I said, British people tend not to know much about the Western Hemisphere (she thought Bolivia was in Central America). She suddenly got very defensive.
Every culture has its blind spots.
Well that's true Runtu. I watch quite a bit of foreign news (I know I need a hobby and a life!) and it's interesting how much covers our politics and country. However, when talking to people on the net, and friends of mine overseas, they're often confused about much of our political climate.
I assure everyone that Americans don't mean to be big ole bullies or whatnot - they're just not at all concerned. It's not that they have ill will toward the world - it's just like Bond alluded to that they're too busy catching the latest installment of Dancing With The Stars. :)