Ray A: A Mormon 'John'?

[_Bond...James Bond]

Anyway... I don't like men too much right now. :(

Good thing I scheduled that sex change...


(Alright...not really. But you thought I did for a sec didn't you?)

Nah bond, you're just about the perfect male in my estimation. Don't change a thing. :)

*Blushing...at 5:10 in the morning...*

[_Sethbag]

I get a queasy feeling about this topic. I think it's out of bounds, or it ought to be. I say this with all due respect, but I think it's a bit too personal.

[_Ray A]

I get a queasy feeling about this topic. I think it's out of bounds, or it ought to be. I say this with all due respect, but I think it's a bit too personal.

Scratch makes everything personal. But.....

I have nothing to hide. I'm not ashamed of anything, or how I feel.

[_Mister Scratch]

You seem to want to discredit Ray. That is your goal in general.

No; not really. Rather, I am more interested in discrediting his hypocritical position. He is, after all, one of the most violently strident defenders of Mormonism.

If you read your blog it is almost never about Apologetic arguments. It is about the people.

Correction: it is about what the people say and write.

I don't see why or how it matters to you or to his standing. From everything I've read Ray is a defender of the LDS faith but struggles with aspects of it....just like everyone else.

No. Ray has gone way WAY beyond being a mere "defender." He is cooking up all this BS about how a Mormon Holocaust is on the way, & etc.

Including me. My struggles are very different but having screwed up before gives you sympathy for those who struggle as well. I hope he can overcome them. You're not a part of that solution Scratch. You want to hit Ray not because of what he says here but because of who he is. Motes and beams everywhere and only one can see clearly enough to pluck them out.

That's not correct, Nehor, unless you feel that Ray consists entirely of his words.

[_Coggins7]

Do you have something against prostitutes?

If that were true, Scratch would have to break all the mirrors in his house. There are different kinds of "whores", and whore is as whore does.

[_Coggins7]

Well done, Ray. In fact, I invite you to head on over to MAD in order to wax poetic about your "sessions" with these various sex workers. I'm sure Calmoriah, juliann, and the rest of the crew will be slapping you heartily on the back.

That an individual of so little intellectual or moral credibility even bothers with this kind of thing at all is indicative of a mind free of either shame or self reflection.

Move on...nothing to see here.

[_Coggins7]

Well, given your whacked-out and antiquated notions pertaining to gender roles (what do you think of Ray A's apparent prostitute addiction, by the way?), I guess I will take that as a compliment.

Such a typical left winger. Scratch long ago approached and then passed the point of self parody of a typical public school educated, CNN watching liberal whose head is full of factoids and media shibboleths but who has never done any really serous reading or thinking in his entire adult life.

Jason's notions of gender roles are hardly "whacked out", and are fairly "liberal" I think, by any standards (I'm not saying they are "left wing"). Saying that someone's beliefs are "antiquated" is just another liberal intellectual cop out. That argument, taken to its conclusion (as leftists like Scratch desire), or course delegitimizes everything anyone ever said, including Jesus Christ and his Apostles, for the last 5,000 years until you hit the sixties, when suddenly everything begins to be made right.

Perhaps truth and insight have more to do with the inherent features of that truth or insight than with the generation or era in which they are promulgated. The idea that that which is modern is therefore more enlightened or better than something that was said a century or a millennium ago is nothing but an intellectually slovenly attempt at an end run around serious philosophical reflection and debate...Scratch's forté.

[_Gadianton]

Doesn't really sound to me that Ray has this complex

I am not in any way accusing Ray of having this complex. I will note though, if I were, then the striking thing about would be that his "worship" and "scorn" would be directed to a different kind of person. Anyway, the only reason I brought it up, wasn't to accuse Ray of it, but to note that he legitimized the notion in his commentary on other men.

Anyway, I'm sorry you're not liking men to much these days. Would it help any if I said that I'm different than the other guys?

[_Gadianton]

Whatever I say, it matters not to anti and ex-Mormons, with few exceptions. I will be demonised and scrutinised to kingdom come, for one reason, and one reason only

I will just state for the record, that I clearly stated I understand if you don't wish to answer my questions. And no, had you not answered them, I wouldn't have said that it proves you're guilty. There are many questions I will not answer on this board if I'm asked.

because I believe in their (Mormons) right to exist, to believe, and to live and teach, as they please.

That's not true. And I call reverse demonization. I also think Mormons have a right to exist, believe and teach as they please. I would also defend their right on the matter, and I'm confident Scratch would defend them too, he'd probably step up before I would.

Everything I say, do, think, will be scrutinised by anti-Mormons, and they will look for every loophole to expose me as a hypocrite. Deep water is what I am wont to swim in.

For the record again, I clearly stated I'm not accusing you of being a hypocrite, in this case. I just don't see the compatibility between two apparent belief sets you have.

I stand by my friends, and they don't judge me. I love them because of who they are, not what they believe. I would readily defend a Mormon, as I would anyone with a heart

.

Note that as a group, ex-Mormons who open their mouths have been judged pretty harshly by yourself.

[_The Nehor]

You seem to want to discredit Ray. That is your goal in general.

No; not really. Rather, I am more interested in discrediting his hypocritical position. He is, after all, one of the most violently strident defenders of Mormonism.

If you read your blog it is almost never about Apologetic arguments. It is about the people.

Correction: it is about what the people say and write.

I don't see why or how it matters to you or to his standing. From everything I've read Ray is a defender of the LDS faith but struggles with aspects of it....just like everyone else.

No. Ray has gone way WAY beyond being a mere "defender." He is cooking up all this BS about how a Mormon Holocaust is on the way, & etc.

Including me. My struggles are very different but having screwed up before gives you sympathy for those who struggle as well. I hope he can overcome them. You're not a part of that solution Scratch. You want to hit Ray not because of what he says here but because of who he is. Motes and beams everywhere and only one can see clearly enough to pluck them out.

That's not correct, Nehor, unless you feel that Ray consists entirely of his words.

You don't want to discredit Ray? You want to discredit his hypocrisy BECAUSE he is one of the primary defenders. Sounds like you want to discredit him as I see no difference. If he is a hypocrite that is a part of him.

Scratch, it is about what they say and write but it's almost entirely a search for ammunition.

I for one suspect that before the end we may see a Mormon holocaust. We may see holocausts of all kinds of people. I've spoken with two holocaust survivors. The thing that stuck out the most to me is how quickly a sane society can descend into madness. I have met antis who scare me. On my Mission there was a man who pointed a shotgun at us and told us in no uncertain terms that if it weren't illegal he'd kill us. I believe him. I've heard arguments that society is advancing beyond these things but I don't believe it. Every generation has it's pet virtues and pet vices and they change rapidly.