I wasted two years of my life

[_Runtu]

We go back a long way. You have no call to make that claim.

I'm sorry. I'm just a little irritable today.

And about merc, go back and read his first post. He blamed the Church.

Yes, he blamed the church for wasting 2 years of his life. Who else was it that pressured him to leave home and spend two years proselytizing? The Libertarian Party? Amway?

[_JAK]

We go back a long way. You have no call to make that claim.

I'm sorry. I'm just a little irritable today.

And about merc, go back and read his first post. He blamed the Church.

Yes, he blamed the church for wasting 2 years of his life. Who else was it that pressured him to leave home and spend two years proselytizing? The Libertarian Party? Amway?

Runtu,

Without question, religious organizations do their utmost to pressure their youth in a variety of ways. Use of fear and guilt are primary emotional appeals. From my reading of a forum such as this, the Mormon organization uses a variety of pressure techniques on their youth.

Clearly, Mercury has described such pressures and how he responded then and how he responds now.

What do we think of the ethics of organized religion as such organized religious groups exert pressure from cradle up?

I’m skeptical there is any introspective analysis on the part of those indoctrinated, and, who in turn seek to indoctrinate their children or others.

Do you, Runtu, see genuine ethical introspection?

JAK

[_Coggins7]

No twat, not weird. You were pushed on a mission just as I was, I am sure. Go or be ostracized, a hearty "F**k off" to anyone who says that boys aren't pressured to serve.

Wow! And I thought holy high horse%#&@ was bad.

So boys are pressured to serve? So what? That's one of the functions of culture and tradition; to place pressure on individuals to fulfill certain things expected of them within the group. Jews are expected and pressured to have their Bar Mitzvah, and Catholics parents pressure their sons and daughters to attend Mass, CCD, and other religious responsibilities. And, after all, its not as if serving a mission is a bad thing. What would you have done otherwise Mercury? The time you spend on this board bashing the Church indicates you've got as much wasted time on your hands now as you did then.

There are a vast plethora of other pressures in the world bearing upon young men, many of them far less wholesome than serving a mission.

How about a critique of them, Marcury?

[_Coggins7]

Its talk therapy.

Its spleen venting by an angry, rebellious adolescent (in mind, if not in body) who's mad that he can't stay up late to watch Wild Biker Babes Spring Break on PPV because he has to get up for church tomorrow.

Adulthood is just around the corner Mercury. They may be baby steps at first, but you can do it...

[_Coggins7]

And you want to call that chicken behavior? You're the chicken. Mercury shows more strength, courage and integrity that you can imagine. Leaving the church ain't for chickens, it takes guts. Go put on your chicken blinders back on and hide behind them and spout some more of your self-righteous sputum.

Yada yada, rama lama ding dong. I can just as easily say that leaving the Church is for moral and intellectual cowards. I've seen and been acquainted with some of them. Some of them are here. I know some leave because of real, sincere, good faith problems with some of the Church's teachings or because of personal issues. Merc has personal issues alright, but nothing he's ever posted in this forum has indicated anything other then that he's an infantile, whining, flailing little snark looking for a pity party for his poor, wasted life.

Excuse me while I go to the kitchen for some horse nuggets...

[_Coggins7]

Jersey Girl and Pokatator,

I get so tired of people saying they were "foreced" to go on a mission, "forced" to marry in the temple.

Its the expectation that other Latter Day Saints with long experience in the Church will buy it that astounds.

The give away in his post was the "I would have been better off smoking pot for 2 years" comment.

The voice of experience, no doubt.

Oh, yes, and the way he slips into the good old boy condescending to women mode. Men who are condescending to women are showing their weakness. They can't beat up on their peers (in physical strength) so they take it out on women.

Merc's vocabulary is limited to roughly 15 to 20 English words, probably half of them vulgar sexual references used as personal attacks against people who go to church on Sunday. I'm sure Merc does his share of beating in his own mental world, late at night, staring up at the ceiling wondering why life sucks.

[_JAK]

No twat, not weird. You were pushed on a mission just as I was, I am sure. Go or be ostracized, a hearty "F**k off" to anyone who says that boys aren't pressured to serve.

Wow! And I thought holy high horse%#&@ was bad.

So boys are pressured to serve? So what? That's one of the functions of culture and tradition; to place pressure on individuals to fulfill certain things expected of them within the group. Jews are expected and pressured to have their Bar Mitzvah, and Catholics parents pressure their sons and daughters to attend Mass, CCD, and other religious responsibilities. And, after all, its not as if serving a mission is a bad thing. What would you have done otherwise Mercury? The time you spend on this board bashing the Church indicates you've got as much wasted time on your hands now as you did then.

There are a vast plethora of other pressures in the world bearing upon young men, many of them far less wholesome than serving a mission.

How about a critique of them, Marcury?

---------------

It appears that Mercury was offering part of an ultimately painful experience which he had.

In that, he was not attempting to present analysis of what various religious organizations do or fail to do with or to their youth.

The “so what” is a question which I posed to Runtu, a question of ethical conduct of religious organizations. What to do when responsibility to youth conflicts with goals and objectives of a religious organization is an issue.

From what I have observed, “serving a mission” is a bad thing. It’s bad particularly if it is a roadblock to other interests, goals, and talents of people who have a contribution to make. Parroting religious dogma or being pressured to do so has much potential to damage if not destroy the talents and productive contributions which an individual might make.

Not knowing Mercury’s age, he may offer contribution here as he sounds an alarm for others who might escape his fate in his youth.

Surely, Mercury deserves praise, not criticism, for being open and honest about his own experiences with a religious organization. Nor does Mercury have any obligation in a discussion here to detail ethical concerns with religious organizations for which he may be less familiar.

This is not to suggest that all other religious power-structures escape scrutiny. Without doubt, they deserve surveillance.

JAK

[_Coggins7]

I served with Missionaries like that. I TOLD THEM THEY SHOULD GO HOME. They never did and I couldn't figure out why. They hated their Mission. Why they stayed I do not know. It was like hell to them according to them. They made my life much more difficult. I suspect they've all gone home and are on boards like.......hey, you're not Canadian, are you Merc? :)

Say, that's an idea. Mormon mission dodgers. Hell no, we won't go! I can just see Merc, backpack and headphones, hitchhiking his way to Saskatchewan with Fortunate Son playing in the background...

[_Trevor]

I am jumping in here late... I've been rather busy. I passed out behind the wheel of my car, came to seconds later to pull the car back into my lane, and spent the next day in and out of the emergency room trying to figure out why I passed out while driving. Never got an answer. Hope it's a fluke. What a way to ring in the New Year.

Anyhoo...

I can sympathize with Mercury because of the pressure he felt. From my memory, our entire Primary and Young Men's program was about getting boys to serve missions. Fortunately for me I was distracted by family problems, etc. If any one had the nerve to ask me when I was serving a mission, and they did, it annoyed the crap out of me.

Then I read the Book of Mormon, received a spiritual witness, and served a mission. I will never regret having gone. I wouldn't say it was easy, or that I was adequately prepared, but it was the experience of a lifetime. I would say that I owe a lot of good things to my decision to go on a mission. I learned a lot about the world and myself.

I was fortunate. I don't deny it. And, I feel sympathy for those who felt forced to go and were miserable while there. I understand the immense social pressure that is applied to young men to go, or at least was in my day. I probably would not have gone if I had not received the witness, but then my family was a mess, and no one was there to push except people at church whom I did not really listen to anyway. Had things been different, I might have been pushed, I might have gone to please others, or out of fear of rejection (I did not, however, grow up in a predominately Mormon environment or have Mormon friends), or other negative reasons. I am grateful that was not the case.

You have my sympathy, Merc. I, on the other hand, oddly have not regretted it for a minute, and I probably never will. It was an awesome experience. Changed my life and for the better. Doesn't matter that I do not roll with the Mos no more.

[_The Nehor]

I think the church should apologize for the culture it created. One high council man got up in our ward and said "don't ask your children if they want to go, ask them where they want to go". I looked at a friend of mine and said - isn't that like the devil's plan.

In the late 70's and early 80's when I spent the best two months of my life in Provo and Northern Ohio, the pressure was so bad that I did not really think of not going, that was what the devil wanted - for you to stay home. I remember whispering to a friend if he thought there was a lot of pressure to go. It was the first time I ever talked about it. We were both 18, just about to turn 19 and both had our mission calls.

The one thing that no one talks about is personal boundaries and how they are violated - people outside the church can't understand - It is really up to those people outside the church to explain what boudaries are - what right and wrong are, to the leaders in the Church just like they had to show them that polygamy was wrong.

I wish them ill luck in their efforts to change the Church from without. I suspect it may require force and I don't want to see that day.