LDS Cult Tithing Horror Stories

[_Who Knows]

People, you're missing the point here...

EITHER pay the back tithing and become temple worthy now, OR start paying and become temple worthy in 3/6/12 months. Bishops aren't horse whipping members into paying back tithing. In most cases, it is a choice they make for the immediacy of the TR.

Some choose to pay the back tithing for the immediate TR. Others, such as myself, chose to just start paying and wait the allotted time.

Heh. I was paying tithing at the time. I just admitted to the bish that I had missed a few months earlier in the year.

Had to pay it back. Maybe he wanted to figure out if I was serious about wanting to serve a mission. Who knows.

[_Jason Bourne]

I find it interesting when I listen to money and get out of debt counselors that they encourage tithing as partof the budgeting and money management principles. One such famous person strongly recommends it and he is not LDS though he is Christian.

Jason, do you have more details about this? I've never heard that, and it's difficult to imagine a debt counselor suggesting giving money away as part of a plan to get out of debt.

Check out http://www.daveramsey.com/

Yeah, I've heard him on the radio. From what I can see on his site, he does emphasize giving and tithing, but for the most part it's after getting out of debt. He lists "Build wealth and give" as the final step in his plan, which is great advice.

From his site:

However, when you are on the earlier Baby Steps and just getting your budget established, money to give may seem hard to come by. That is why you should find creative ways to give. You can give of your time, your knowledge or your services to help other people.

Also good advice. I don't think it would be very responsible to advise people who are in debt to give away money that ought to be dedicated to getting them solvent. At the same time, I realize you can't tell people not to pay tithing if they think their eternal salvation hinges on it.

I can assure you that he tells people to tithe even as they are trying to get out of debt. I listen to his radio show and have heard him say this dozens of times.

[_Coggins7]

Edited to add---But, Coggins, why are you automatically assuming that the story is not true? Church leaders in charge make mistakes all the time. The story certainly could be true.

Because Infy has no credibility whatsoever. I do not think he is above spinning slanderous yarns to further his agenda or cater to whatever neurosis drives his mindless hatred. And it is hatred Liz. Infy is part of the Polygamy Porter and Mercury school of anti-Mormon polemics: bigoted, hateful, mendacious, juvenile, and foul mouthed.

The story itself is suspicious, but its source deligitimizes it on sight regardless.

[_Some Schmo]

Because Infy has no credibility whatsoever. I do not think he is above spinning slanderous yarns to further his agenda or cater to whatever neurosis drives his mindless hatred.

You are mistaken. He's doing is meat before milk, that's all. It seems to me that even if he does spin, it's for the greater good. If Mormons can lie for the lord, why can't critics lie for the truth? He's just spinning in the opposite direction that the church is spinning so as to nullify all that spinning.

Let's face it; Mormons are pretty spinny.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Scottie...

EITHER pay the back tithing and become temple worthy now, OR start paying and become temple worthy in 3/6/12 months. Bishops aren't horse whipping members into paying back tithing. In most cases, it is a choice they make for the immediacy of the TR.

EXACTLY!

If a person wanted a TR to go see his neice get married and hadn't paid tithing for a while, he may not have the luxury of waiting the required amount of time, and the Bishop may ask for back tithing. I've seen this happen a few times and do not think it is unusual.

I also know of a case where a man wanted to ordain his son to an Elder and had lapsed in tithing, he was given the choice of paying six months back tithing or waiting for six months.

~dancer~

[_Jason Bourne]

The Bishop knew this and told him he had to at least pay a years worth of back tithing before he would renew the recommend. This came to roughly $4000.

Did anyone here catch this horse nugget? I've lapsed on tithing a number of times during my life, and all that was ever required was that I start anew and maintain obedience to that commandment for some specific time period.

Where do these exmos get these wonderful stories?

Yes I noted this already.

[_Inconceivable]

I honestly believed this while a TBM. When our circumstances became difficult, I never went to the food bank or requested any other assistance from the bishop. We made good use of the dried stuffs in our food storage we had bought several years before. Our grass stayed dead for 2 years for lack of water, yard sales for clothes and much of Christmas. We paid a full tithe even though, for about 4 months, we lived entirely off our credit cards.

It was the tithing that kept us at the poverty level

Sorry but I don't buy it. Tithing does not keep you at the poverty level. 10% is helpful but it is not that much. Plus if you deduct it on your tax return it is not really 10%. Let's see, I am not sure what poverty level is. Like around 38k for a family of four? $3800 is going to help but it ain't a make or break. Most people I know who tithe do quite fine on what is left over. Most budget and plan for the expense and make ends meet. Maybe your circumstances were different though.

Our circumstances were much different, Jason. I would have pulled the gold fillings from my teeth.

In our worst four years the best line 32 read on our 1040 was $22k (net income before deductions). Up at 5am bed at 1-3am, School, 1-2 jobs, 3 kids, 1 car I repaired myself, maternity bills (we paid cash). We didn't realize we had it so bad until the bishop showed up with a couple bags of groceries. We received a $1,200 deduction per child. Income after taxes was about $15k. To top it off, I got laid off for refusing to work Sundays. Hardly saw my family. Felt like I didn't deserve them when I did see them - guilt I learned from the mission.

$2,200 meant the world. Instead, I gave it to those disconnected from the plight of humanity - imported tile, brass handles, statues..

We were entirely on our own. No family to fall back on.

We now teach our children not to live so ignorantly.

Not running faster than you're able means to outright reject some of the teachings of the Mormon church.

[_truth dancer]

I use colors when the discussion gets many quotes going... I think it is a little easier to navigate. Feel free to post however you wish.

But what if your idea that something is horrible is simply a part of social conditioning which is in error and in the next life you will see that you were in error?

You completely miss the point Charity.

It is not a good motivator to suggest that what seems harmful, horrible, and wrong is actually good and in the next life one will find the horrible good.

I do not see why someone would want to have faith in that which feels cruel and horrible with the idea that in the next life the horrible will be wonderful, the cruel will be holy, and the disgusting will be peaceful.

I have said over and over that I have no idea what is possible in the eternities… I HIGHLY doubt the next life will resemble anything a human can come up with, and I certainly HOPE it will not be remotely like the LDS version, nevertheless, who knows?

Suppose you were raised in a vegetarian culture and were taught that meat eating is sinful, horrible, disgusting, etc. Then you learn that what you have been taught is wrong. You could do a 180 turn around.

Actually, I am a vegetarian and do think eating meat is disgusting. I’m pretty sure I would be quite ill if I ate meat at this point in my life… if I could even get meat in my mouth.

I just suggest that this may be the case. And as you said, our limited human minds cannot possibly comprehend the mysteries of the universe. So you have to keep that option open. Or else abandon your theory that there are things we cannot possibly comprehend.

Let me try once again. I have repeatedly stated that I do not know what is the next life and I do not think humans can even imagine let alone grasp the totality of eternity or existence. I am totally open to whatever may happen… any one of the thousands of versions of the afterlife may actually be the true one but I highly doubt it.

Regardless of this…. I do not see why it is a good or healthy thing to hold to the idea, or have faith in the idea that what we hold as good and holy will actually be horrible in the next life, OR that what we find unhealthy or horrible in this life will actually be great and wonderful.

I find this a very strange way to navigate life, to motivate one to believe, or to help someone find God.

Because of the idea that the bishop could let someone out of the requirement to pay tithing. That would be a sin.

No Charity.. it may violate your law of Moses approach but a Bishop can (and they do at times), embrace the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law. The world is not quite so black and white Charity. Because YOU have an issue with people abiding by YOUR rules doesn’t mean that this is the way the world, or the church responds to life and individuals. Do you not believe a Bishop can be inspired? Do you not believe the Bishop can feel the promptings of the HG?

I

You have a mistaken sense of compassion and care. If you really want the best for the person, you do what is going to help them in the long run. Not what is easiest or "feels"good.

You have no idea what my sense of compassion and care is Charity. Who ever said Jesus was not helping people in the long run, or doing what is easiest or feels good? With all due respect your insistence that you are always right and that your mean spiritedness is somehow a good thing is really odd in my opinion.

Do you think YOUR mean spirited approach is somehow helpful to folks here? Do you think you are doing some sort of good? You call yourself a "mean therapist"... who are you trying to help? With all due respect, I don't think your approach seems to be working very well.

18 months ago, I broke my leg and severely damaged the knee joint. I spent 2 weeks in the hospital and a month in rehab before I could come home. I had a really mean therapist. He made me do excerises which hurt like crazy. One of the worst was when he would bend my lower leg back to increase the flexibility. It hurt so bad I would almost cry. I hated those exercises. And at times whne the pain was really bad, I hated him. On the wekeends, I had a different therapist. She was really sweet, and she wouldn't push nearly so hard on my leg to make it bend. And it didn't hurt nearly so bad.

Charity, the point is not to push or not push people .. the point I am trying to make is to care for others. You seem to equate mean spiritedness, pushing, and nastiness with what is good for a person. My personal world view is much different that this. I guess we can agree to disagree on what is a healthy and holy approach to caring for others.

This is the way with life. If you feel sorry for someone because they are in pain (psychological or emotional) and encourage or allow them to do something which is going to make the pain worse in the long run, even though it may ease it temporarily now, are you doing them any favors?

I find you equating compassion and care with pity and feeling sorry for others. I find this so strange. They are not one and the same.

I am the mean therapist.

Funny that you see yourself as a mean therapist. And, more strange that you think this mean spiritedness is a good approach to life.

And yes, people will have trouble with that approach.

Yes, I think most folks think our world could use a little more care, kindness, and compassion. Funny you don't.

They will cry and beg not to have to go through the pain of therapy. But the sweet therapist who wants to make them "feel better" keeps the patient in rehab longer, and they may even get to go home at all.

Again, I find it odd that you equate a kind hearted, compassionate person with something horrible, and a mean spirited person as somehow good.

Your idea that to care for others means to just make everyone feel good is not remotely what anyone here has been saying. It is something you created Charity.

Thank you for explaining yourself. I think it helps us to understand you.

~dancer~

[_beastie]

Did anyone here catch this horse nugget? I've lapsed on tithing a number of times during my life, and all that was ever required was that I start anew and maintain obedience to that commandment for some specific time period.

Where do these exmos get these wonderful stories?

As others have stated, if one wants to obtain a recommend at that very moment, the only solution is back tithing. You can't promise to be good from now on and pay it in the future.

Certainly you can start anew, and in some "specific time period", try once again for a recommend.

If you all are suggesting that bishops would NOT ask for back tithing to renew a recommend at that moment, I'd like to see proof of that, because it happened to me, too. In fact, I paid as much as I could at that moment, but still lacked 200 dollars. 200 dollars meant a lot to me back then (well, still does, but not quite as much). I told the bishop I intended to catch up that last 200 dollars ASAP, but no matter. I was still marked as a "partial" tithe payer, and even worse, my father, who was some sort of stake clerk at the time "heard" I was only a PARTIAL tithe payer and fussed at me about it.

[_Infymus]

Edited to add---But, Coggins, why are you automatically assuming that the story is not true? Church leaders in charge make mistakes all the time. The story certainly could be true.

Because Infy has no credibility whatsoever. I do not think he is above spinning slanderous yarns to further his agenda or cater to whatever neurosis drives his mindless hatred. And it is hatred Liz. Infy is part of the Polygamy Porter and Mercury school of anti-Mormon polemics: bigoted, hateful, mendacious, juvenile, and foul mouthed.

The story itself is suspicious, but its source deligitimizes it on sight regardless.

Oh that's rich. Tell that to the three Ex-Mormons who testified that their stories were true. Those were not MY stories, but their stories. Show me where, oh great Coggins, that I have lied to further my agenda. Please show me proof - because that is a tactic reserved for the Mormon Apologists - not the Ex-Mormons like myself. I may be bigoted, foul mouthed, juvenile at times, and perceived as hateful, but I have absolutely and equivocally never, ever - once lied to further the Ex-Mormon agenda. If I have passed along erroneous information, I have been the first to correct it. If I have posted something on the MC from someone and it turns out to be false, the article is pulled immediately.

The stories that I posted originally in this thread were passed on to be from Ex-Mormons who suffered at the hands of the Mormon Cult.

You can call me a lot of names and pin the blame on me for whatever you want - but don't call me a goddamn liar - and if you're going to - then you better bring the proof to the table because otherwise, you're just another Mormon asshole with no justification.