Scratch, DCP, and the IRS

[_Mister Scratch]

Wow Scratchy. Did you read the instructions as you said? It took me all of about three minutes to find what I posted and that said if the NFP pays a fee for the chairman or other directors time to a management company or another organization the 990 shows it as if paid to the chairman. Isn't that what you have been whining about? That the 990 said 20,000 was paid the Chairman, one DCP. And that one DCP says it was not paid to him but to BYU. I have just demonstrated this is the case and yes I did look at the 1997 Form 990.

As I noted above, wouldn't this kind of information (if true) have been included in Part VIII of the 1998 Form 990 filed by FARMS? FARMS answered "No" to all those questions, but if such an arrangment with BYU existed FARMS should have answered "Yes," right? Again, I'm no tax expert, so feel free to educate me.

This was precisely what I was also wondering, Rollo.

[_Mister Scratch]

Wow Scratchy. Did you read the instructions as you said? It took me all of about three minutes to find what I posted and that said if the NFP pays a fee for the chairman or other directors time to a management company or another organization the 990 shows it as if paid to the chairman. Isn't that what you have been whining about?

Wait a second.... Are you saying that you don't understand the nature of my questions? I mean, you have been confused with what I've said before, Jason.

That the 990 said 20,000 was paid the Chairman, one DCP. And that one DCP says it was not paid to him but to BYU. I have just demonstrated this is the case and yes I did look at the 1997 Form 990.

You haven't demonstrated that was the case, Jason. You showed that the 990 instructions allow for "non-disclosure" on this section of the 990 form. Tax forms, as a businessman like yourself no doubt knows, are often quite complex. You do know that, right? And you accounted for all the details when you came marching in, demanding an apology?

Are *you* now going to apologize and concede that, in fact, you have not "proved" that the $20,000 was paid to BYU? Because, I have maintained all along, aside from DCP's "testimonial," there is no evidence that this happened.

*That* has been my basic gripe. Liz's and Nehor's and others' basic opposition to my questions has been that "this sort of thing happens all the time." Now, they and others are all huffy because I have merely asked for evidence concerning this specific case.

Nehor has not provided it.
Liz has not provided it.
DCP has not provided it.
LoaP has not provided it.
JustMe has not provided it.
*YOU* have not provided it.

You *have* demonstrated that, according to the tax forms, it is a possibility. But that's it, Jason. Do you understand this? Are you now going to "concede" that you have misunderstood my position, and that you have been hurling false accusations?

I submit that unless you concede this point and apologize to Dr Peterson it will certainly demonstrate that you are not interested in truth. Rather it will prove you are on a spinning smear campaign regardless of facts and will perpetrate character assassination regardless.

Sure, Jason: I'll gladly "concede" that it's a possibility that the 20K was "funneled" back into BYU. I have never argued anything differently than that.

[_The Nehor]

Hold on, Scratch.

You are insisting that it is a possibility. Even if it is (which I in no way agree concede) then isn't the burden on you to show that it is proven or even likely?

You do understand that the burden of proof is on you. We have only one source who knows (DCP) and he has stated that your accusations are false. You have not shown that his statement is false. Doesn't this mean that you have to either concede defeat or search for real evidence?

Is there a possibility that DCP cheats on his taxes. Yes. However it is just as likely based on the evidence presented that you cheat on your taxes. I find you cheating to be more likely personally.

I hereby accuse Scratch of cheating on his taxes. Unless he submits his income tax forms online and PROVES he didn't I am going to maintain this accusation.

See my sig.

[_The Nehor]

Act 2 begins. This is good. Need more popcorn.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

You are insisting that it is a possibility. Even if it is (which I in no way agree concede) then isn't the burden on you to show that it is proven or even likely?

You do understand that the burden of proof is on you. We have only one source who knows (DCP) and he has stated that your accusations are false. You have not shown that his statement is false. Doesn't this mean that you have to either concede defeat or search for real evidence?

We have the publicly filed 1998 Form 990 of FARMS stating unequivocably that DCP was paid $20,400 for his services as "Board Chair." The Form 990 was signed under oath and penalities of perjury. How is the burden on Scratch? The Form 990 speaks for itself. The burden is on you to come up with evidence (not just "possibilities" or DCP's claim of "it's just not true") as to why this information on the Form 990 is false.

[_The Nehor]

You are insisting that it is a possibility. Even if it is (which I in no way agree concede) then isn't the burden on you to show that it is proven or even likely?

You do understand that the burden of proof is on you. We have only one source who knows (DCP) and he has stated that your accusations are false. You have not shown that his statement is false. Doesn't this mean that you have to either concede defeat or search for real evidence?

We have the publicly filed 1998 Form 990 of FARMS stating unequivocably that DCP was paid $20,400 for his services as "Board Chair." The Form 990 was signed under oath and penalities of perjury. How is the burden on Scratch? The Form 990 speaks for itself. The burden is on you to come up with evidence (not just "possibilities" or DCP's claim of "it's just not true") as to why this information on the Form 990 is false.

Except that under the instructions for said form you would write it the same way if it was paid to another institution. Therefore either reading is correct. The only person who knows (DCP) has stated his understanding of it. It is now up to Scratch to show EVIDENCE that DCP is lying. If he can't produce anything isn't it logical to go with the statement of the person who actually KNOWS.

Besides, as an accused tax cheat himself, Scratch really has no room to talk until he exonerates himself by producing his 2007 tax forms.

[_harmony]

We have the publicly filed 1998 Form 990 of FARMS stating unequivocably that DCP was paid $20,400 for his services as "Board Chair." The Form 990 was signed under oath and penalities of perjury. How is the burden on Scratch? The Form 990 speaks for itself. The burden is on you to come up with evidence (not just "possibilities" or DCP's claim of "it's just not true") as to why this information on the Form 990 is false.

And in his capacity as board chair, he agrees and knows that the $20,000 goes to BYU, not his pocket.

I'm not seeing the problem here.

If you think he or BYU cheated on this 10 year old tax form, then report it. If not, shut the hell up about it.

Good grief!

[_Daniel Peterson]

Congenital Scartcholepsy is an extraordinarily difficult disease to cure. And the sufferer has to be willing to cooperate in the therapy.

Sadly, I don't see that here.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Except that under the instructions for said form you would write it the same way if it was paid to another institution. Therefore either reading is correct.

That's not how I read Part VIII of the 1998 Form 990. Any type of sharing arrangement between FARMS and BYU had to be reported, but there's a big "No" instead.

The only person who knows (DCP) has stated his understanding of it. It is now up to Scratch to show EVIDENCE that DCP is lying. If he can't produce anything isn't it logical to go with the statement of the person who actually KNOWS.

The 1998 Form 990 of FARMS, signed and filed under oath, carries more weight than DCP's "understanding" in terms of burden of proof. Scratch (or someone else) has produced the Form 990 in question. The burden is now on you to refute it.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

And in his capacity as board chair, he agrees and knows that the $20,000 goes to BYU, not his pocket.

I'm not seeing the problem here.

The publicly filed, under oath, 1998 Form 990 of FARMS shows otherwise.

If you think he or BYU cheated on this 10 year old tax form, then report it. If not, shut the hell up about it.

I never said anyone cheated on the Form 990. For all I know, it's truthful and complete (I've not seen any reliable evidence to suggest otherwise). Instead, I'm questioning DCP's denial on this bb.