BKP Predicts the End of the World as We Know It?

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_mentalgymnast

Re: BKP Predicts the End of the World as We Know It?

Post by _mentalgymnast »

Roger Morrison wrote:Interesting post MG. Which of the two missals attributed to BKP would you suggest disenhance (enhance?) him the most? How much credibility should he be accorded?

Regards, Roger


Do we have reason to believe that this address:

http://www.zionsbest.com/face.html

...was not transcribed correctly?

Which one enhances BKP the most? The one that is most credible, of course! BKP's credibility is a matter of personal interpretation and/or belief in whether or not he was speaking prophetically or not.

Regards,
MG
_karl61
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Re: BKP Predicts the End of the World as We Know It?

Post by _karl61 »

My vote: not real so no comment

but if it was I would like to see him get off the horse to take a pee and get his butt kicked by an angry deer hiding in the bush.
I want to fly!
_Jason Bourne
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Re: BKP Predicts the End of the World as We Know It?

Post by _Jason Bourne »


I wonder if this was more of what BKP is really like than what we get from the conference pulpit. I mean, this didn't go through committee, receive the official stamp of approval, or have the spelling corrected. This was BKP, speaking off the cuff. Perhaps a truer talk than we've heard in a long time.

No wonder the Brethren issued a quick caution.


Conference talks are not assigned nor preapproved. It does seem, as in the case of the talk be Elder Polmen, if they don't like what is said they go back and have it redone.
_Ray A

Re: BKP Predicts the End of the World as We Know It?

Post by _Ray A »

Jason Bourne wrote:Conference talks are not assigned nor preapproved. It does seem, as in the case of the talk be Elder Polmen, if they don't like what is said they go back and have it redone.


They tried that on J. Golden Kimball once, and it didn't work.
_Ray A

Re: BKP Predicts the End of the World as We Know It?

Post by _Ray A »

mentalgymnast wrote: As I said in my initial post on this thread, however, it doesn't seem to take much to get people going on BKP.


Maybe we should be asking why so few "get going" on, for example, Spencer W. Kimball?
_mentalgymnast

Re: BKP Predicts the End of the World as We Know It?

Post by _mentalgymnast »

Ray A wrote:
mentalgymnast wrote: As I said in my initial post on this thread, however, it doesn't seem to take much to get people going on BKP.


Maybe we should be asking why so few "get going" on, for example, Spencer W. Kimball?


BKP steps directly on the toes of intellectuals when he says stuff like this:

“You seminary teachers and some of you institute and BYU men will be teaching the history of the Church this school year. This is an unparalleled opportunity in the lives of your students to increase their faith and testimony of the divinity of this work. Your objective should be that they will see the hand of the Lord in every hour and every moment of the Church from its beginning till now.”

“Church history can be so interesting and so inspiring as to be a very powerful tool indeed for building faith. If not properly written or properly taught, it may be a faith destroyer.”

“There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith promoting or not.”

“Some things that are true are not very useful.”

“That historian or scholar who delights in pointing out the weaknesses and frailties of present or past leaders destroys faith. A destroyer of faith — particularly one within the Church, and more particularly one who is employed specifically to build faith — places himself in great spiritual jeopardy. He is serving the wrong master, and unless he repents, he will not be among the faithful in the eternities. ... Do not spread disease germs!"


There's something about this particular BKP quote and others similar to it that just doesn't sit right with some of those that see themselves as intellectual giants, placing intellect above faith when push comes to shove.

SWK was a sweet little old man. Not a grizzly bear type. Kind of hard to pick on him...unless you get down to particulars like his book, "Miracle of Forgiveness".

Regards,
MG
_Ray A

Re: BKP Predicts the End of the World as We Know It?

Post by _Ray A »

mentalgymnast wrote:There's something about this particular BKP quote and others similar to it that just doesn't sit right with some of those that see themselves as intellectual giants, placing intellect above faith when push comes to shove.

SWK was a sweet little old man. Not a grizzly bear type. Kind of hard to pick on him...unless you get down to particulars like his book, "Miracle of Forgiveness".


I think this (what Packer said) appeals to certain mindsets, MG. SWK's brother-in-law, for example, Henry Eyring Snr., would most likely, I think, not have agreed with Packer about "intellectuals". I think you underestimate the intellectual acumen of Spencer W. Kimball, and far from being a "sweet little old man", reserved judgements about matters that Packer dished out liberally, which, in my opinion, was a wiser course (SWK's) to take. And I might add, as an aside, that SWK is the Mormon president I admire the most. It's probably no coincidence I joined the Church when he was president. He is also responsible for, perhaps, the most "revolutionary" change in Mormonism since it's inception in 1830, the removal of the "curse of Cain". "Sweet little old men" don't usually take such radical and revolutionary moves to virtually turn belief history on its head.

Packer appeals to a raw and fundamentalist element which encourages intimidation and judgementalism on scales I find disturbing.

As for The Miracle of Forgiveness, that is where SWK shows his, in some aspects, "religious zeal". In spite of this, he remains, for me anyway, the most important and influential Mormon leader of the 20th century. Imagine overturning almost two centuries of embedded religious tradition. Now that is what I call "prophetic".
_mentalgymnast

Re: BKP Predicts the End of the World as We Know It?

Post by _mentalgymnast »

Ray A wrote:And I might add, as an aside, that SWK is the Mormon president I admire the most. It's probably no coincidence I joined the Church when he was president.


I'm sure you've read it, but this book:

Edward L. Kimball's, "Lengthen Your Stride: The Presidency of Spencer W. Kimball", was a very good read on the progressive views of SWK. Pres. Kimball came out to my mission and participated in the dedication of the Wash. D.C. temple. I met him then. When you first met him, he did appear/seem as a "sweet little old man".

But a powerful and very bright individual, I agree.

Regards,
MG
_harmony
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Re: BKP Predicts the End of the World as We Know It?

Post by _harmony »

Ray A wrote:Packer appeals to a raw and fundamentalist element which encourages intimidation and judgementalism on scales I find disturbing.


Are we regressing then? Since 1978, have we made any real progress? How many of the 12 sit on BKP's side and how many would side with SWK?
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_Inconceivable
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Re: BKP Predicts the End of the World as We Know It?

Post by _Inconceivable »

harmony wrote:
Ray A wrote:Packer appeals to a raw and fundamentalist element which encourages intimidation and judgementalism on scales I find disturbing.


Are we regressing then? Since 1978, have we made any real progress? How many of the 12 sit on BKP's side and how many would side with SWK?


I just don't think they were that far off from each other. Kimball's book, Miracle of Forgiveness , did not speak of a miracle nor forgiveness as Jesus and His apostles taught it. It pretty much explained that we pay for our sins by giving everything in our possession to satisfy debt - over time. Just as BKP speaks about our contract with Jesus.

Both SWK and BKP lack a basic understanding of the Miracle of Forgiveness, unconditional love, becoming a child of Christ.

Isn't that what it's all about?
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