No such thing as Moses

[_Jersey Girl]

Brenton,

Here's an analogous question regarding contemporary times.

Sarah Palin says the outcome of the election is reliant on the will of God.

Does Sarah Palin exist as a god believing historical person?

[_Brenton]

No. They're just aspects of deity, so to speak.

Does Sarah Palin exist as a god believing historical person?

Ofcourse she does, but she's not a biblical character so that's a fairly unrelated question.

[_Sethbag]

I want a piece of this one, Jersey Girl.

Yes, I believe that some of the people referenced in the Old Testament stories may well have existed. There's no reason to suppose that they all could not possibly have existed. And I don't really think that Brenton would disagree with this.

But in the case of Moses, there's no particularly good reason to believe that he definitely did exist, and there's some pretty good reason to suspect that he didn't.

In particular, there's some very serious and credible doubt as to whether the Exodus, in which Moses plays a central role, is in fact real history, or made up legend. And if it's just made up legend, then what good reason is there for insisting that Moses, unlike the story he starred in, actually was a real person after all?

I'm not disputing that Moses might have existed. He might have, sure. But there's no compelling reason to believe that he did, and lots of sources of doubt and justification for skepticism.

And you aren't helping matters by pointing out that all of the material which mentions Moses is part of this ensemble of highly dubious orally-transmitted religious mythology. All that does is reinforce Brenton's point, which is that there isn't any material, that mentions Moses, that isn't irretrievably mixed up with religious folkore and mythology.

For heaven's sake, Jersey Girl, the "five books of Moses" start with Adam and Eve as the first people on Earth, 6000 years ago in a Garden with a talking snake, go on to Noah building a wooden ship and saving all forms of life on Earth from existinction through a global catastrophic flood, to people trying to build a tower to reach God and God then changing all of their languages so that they couldn't understand each other, to thwart them, describes a massive Exodus from Egypt of many thousands of Israelites, which is looking more and more like sheer fantasy, etc.

These records literally reek of mythology and folklore. And if these records are all you can show that mention Moses, are you really arguing that there's still more reason to believe Moses is real, than to believe that he's part and parcel of the folklore and mythology?

I don't think you've made your case.

[_Brenton]

Yes, I believe that some of the people referenced in the Old Testament stories may well have existed. There's no reason to suppose that they all could not possibly have existed. And I don't really think that Brenton would disagree with this.

No I don't. This is the same as the Egyptian Pharaohs though, the scribes and temple builders dramatised things in their favor.

If any characters in the Israelite scriptures did exist, then, they're more than likely the less significant ones in my opinion.

[_ludwigm]

...

...

The stories to which you refer were transmitted orally and later textualized.

Orally, Brenton.

Monica Lewinski. Impeaching. The meaning of "is". Oval room. Oral room. Bill Clinton.

Yes, I am a dirty old hog.
In a foreign language, one can memorize the words by their usual environment.

Yes, this is off but I sat back.

[_TAK]

TAK,

You already proved you are a low-watt bulb in our previous exchange concerning Goedel. Now, you are just being gratuitous.

Still waiting for Calculus Crusader to show where I was a "low-watt bulb in our previous exchange concerning Goedel" ..

[_Calculus Crusader]

TAK,

You already proved you are a low-watt bulb in our previous exchange concerning Goedel. Now, you are just being gratuitous.

Still waiting for Calculus Crusader to show where I was a "low-watt bulb in our previous exchange concerning Goedel" ..

You'll have to keep waiting because finding the thread in the Celestial forum is not a priority for me right now.

[_TAK]

You'll have to keep waiting because finding the thread in the Celestial forum is not a priority for me right now.

don't bother, it was someone else squirt.

[_antishock8]

Still waiting for Calculus Crusader to show where I was a "low-watt bulb in our previous exchange concerning Goedel" ..

You'll have to keep waiting because finding the thread in the Celestial forum is not a priority for me right now.

CC, you owe TAK an apology. Are you Mormon enough to humble yourself and offer this man an apology?

[_Jersey Girl]

Sethbag

I want a piece of this one, Jersey Girl.

I loved reading that line, Sethbag. It's about damn time someone wanted a piece of a topical discussion/debate around here. Go for it, buddy!

:-D

(I'll reply to the remainder of your post in a bit here if you've taken an opposing position. I was admittedly jazzed by that one liner! )