"I'm Drinking My First Coffee Tonight"

[_Sethbag]

Beard card.

Yeah, at BYU if a guy has beard, they won't let him take a test at the testing center unless he has a "beard card". That's right, a license, issued by one's doctor, to grow a beard.

Harmony, did your bishop issue you with a Tea Card? It might be handy, like you could whip it out to show other members you bump into in the grocery store when you've got your boxes of tea bags in the cart and they notice. I'm not sure it would unwrinkle all the brows, but at least it might appease some of them.

When I was a believer I had to go the rounds with some family members, and on my mission with some companions, about non-alcoholic beer (was in Switzerland and Germany, and lots of LDS members drank NA beer, and I was served it on multiple occasions by members).

Beer is just so damn evil that they were worried about the "very appearance of evil" giving people the wrong idea if I was seen by someone buying some NA brew. Not to mention that under U.S. excise tax laws, a brew is allowed to be sold as non-alcoholic so long as it contains less than .5% alcohol, which obviously means to the Mormons who fret over these things that this NA beer might actually contain .5% alcohol. One LDS aquaintence I argued about this with when I lived in New Hampshire asserted that if it had one molecule of alcohol in it, then it was evil.

The fact that one would have to drink more than a whole sixpack of NA beers, assuming they pushed right up to the legal limit of how much alcohol they could contain, just to get as much alcohol as one single weak Utah beer, and one and a half sixpacks to equal one beer from most other states, plus the fact that NA beer just isn't really all that good, sort of enforces a situation where it would be physically impossible even to get a buzz from it, really doesn't mean anything in such an argument. It's not whether one could even get drunk. No, it's whether the evil molecules are floating around in there at all.

[_Seven]

"Droopy"

Perhaps, at some future point, we will be "under the law" to that aspect of it, just as the prohibitions of addictive substances was once counsel, but became commandment.

If I recall correctly, the question during the temple recommend interview is
"Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?" In which case 99% of Mormons who currently hold temple recommends are not really following it.

I didn't realize we were only under command to keep certain portions of it.
Maybe they should change the question to "Do you keep the beverage portion of the WoW that was later defined as coffee, tea, alcohol.....?"

Again, however, seeing the WoW in a pharisitical manner, as a ledger of do's and don'ts and playing them off against one another in a hair splitting exercise misses the greater point of the WoW and obedience to it.

I agree! It's too bad that generations of Mormons have cherry picked the WoW into just that.

[_harmony]

Harmony, did your bishop issue you with a Tea Card? It might be handy, like you could whip it out to show other members you bump into in the grocery store when you've got your boxes of tea bags in the cart and they notice. I'm not sure it would unwrinkle all the brows, but at least it might appease some of them.

Somehow, I think the beer in my cart might upset them more (I make a lot of beer bread and keep a six-pack in my pantry in case I feel the urge).

Actually, I doubt anyone would say anything to me at all. I have somewhat of a reputation for being straight-up with people.

[_Jason Bourne]

Being thirty pounds overweight abuse? This sounds like trendy junk science to me, but regardless, there is no present covenant relationship with God regarding being overweight, and this no doubt results, at least partially, from the fact that many problems with weight are genetically determined as much as they have to do with choice of food items. As with my own wife, it is not gluttony, but a constant battle with one's own metabolism.

I just pulled the 30 pounds out of the air. Rather, many LDS are border on weights that for them would be considered obese. Yes some have genetica issues. But many frankly do have an addiction to eating too much food and too little exercise. My point is that this is far more unhealthy than drinking a glass of wine a day (which actually is good for a person) or a cup of coffee. But such and LDS will pat themselves on the back for not drinking wine or coffee but think nothing of shoving two more calorie fat packed cookies into their mouth.

I believe this is not in the spirit of the WoW any more than the prohibitions. If this is really God's law of health as we bill it then it is all important not just part of it.

There is a covenant relationship regarding alcohol, and that is the salient point.

There is? And just where do I see that spelled out?

Criticisms of the WoW grounded in an assumption that the fundamental concern of the WoW is physical health or longevity miss the real point of the WoW entirely.

Well the LDS Church sure promotes this is such a way. Why in the current New Era there is an article on Energy Drinks and why they are bad for you and while even though not specifically mentioned in the WOW they are part of the spirit of what it means.









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[Guest]

If I recall correctly, the question during the temple recommend interview is
"Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?" In which case 99% of Mormons who currently hold temple recommends are not really following it.

I didn't realize we were only under command to keep certain portions of it.
Maybe they should change the question to "Do you keep the beverage portion of the WoW that was later defined as coffee, tea, alcohol.....?"

You clearly haven't been following the thread seven. If the WoW is what it appears to be, and has gone through the historical development we now all seem to agree it has, then it is still in process of development regarding the degree to which it, or portions of it, are emphasized by the Brethren. We have already established that it was reemphasized in the 19th century, and later made compulsory as a matter of worthiness. This may yet happen to the dietary portions of the "counsel"

I really don't think you understand LDS doctrine and philosophy well enough to get beyond this kind of jot and tittle Pharisaic understanding of the concept Sevin, or your just trolling for a cynical criticism to make for its own sake.

[_Droopy]

I just pulled the 30 pounds out of the air. Rather, many LDS are border on weights that for them would be considered obese. Yes some have genetica issues. But many frankly do have an addiction to eating too much food and too little exercise.

CFR.

My point is that this is far more unhealthy than drinking a glass of wine a day (which actually is good for a person) or a cup of coffee. But such and LDS will pat themselves on the back for not drinking wine or coffee but think nothing of shoving two more calorie fat packed cookies into their mouth.

Which, for most of the population, is utterly harmless. The Brethren have taught for generations now that the spirit of the WoW encompasses an attitude of inquiry and interest in our health. If we suspect that something is unhealthy or deleterious, we should avoid it until we can gain more knowledge about it and its effects. We should avoid things, even what are, for most people, good, healthy things, if they are bad for us.

Most people are not addicted to food, and food addiction, where it exists, has nothing to do with specific food items but with eating itself. As with alcohol or drugs, the addiction isn't as much in the substance as it is in the consumer of the substance.

I believe this is not in the spirit of the WoW any more than the prohibitions. If this is really God's law of health as we bill it then it is all important not just part of it.

I agree.

There is? And just where do I see that spelled out?

The WoW itself, which is now a commandment upon which Temple worship is predicated. This makes it a covenant relationship between ourselves and the Lord and as much a part of the other covenants we renew by taking the sacrement each Sunday. The covenant itself is spelled out in fair detail in the canonical text of the WoW.

Well the LDS Church sure promotes this is such a way. Why in the current New Era there is an article on Energy Drinks and why they are bad for you and while even though not specifically mentioned in the WOW they are part of the spirit of what it means.

But its obedience to the covenant, a covenant and principle with promise, that is of the most salient importance.

[_moksha]

Is making a suggestion in order to keep Emma happy by not having whiskey bottles, crackers and tobacco spit littering the floor of the Red Brick Store, then having it voted on years later, a sufficient method for the making of a revelation?

[_Jason Bourne]

I just pulled the 30 pounds out of the air. Rather, many LDS are border on weights that for them would be considered obese. Yes some have genetica issues. But many frankly do have an addiction to eating too much food and too little exercise.

CFR.

I don't have a reference. But take a look in the pews when you go to Church. But perhaps addiction is too strong. But LDS like the general population are overweight and may ignore the health perils of being over weight but still thing they are quite fine by avoiding alcohol and tobacco.

My point is that this is far more unhealthy than drinking a glass of wine a day (which actually is good for a person) or a cup of coffee. But such and LDS will pat themselves on the back for not drinking wine or coffee but think nothing of shoving two more calorie fat packed cookies into their mouth.

Which, for most of the population, is utterly harmless.

As is a glass of wine once a day.

The Brethren have taught for generations now that the spirit of the WoW encompasses an attitude of inquiry and interest in our health. If we suspect that something is unhealthy or deleterious, we should avoid it until we can gain more knowledge about it and its effects. We should avoid things, even what are, for most people, good, healthy things, if they are bad for us.

I have no problem with that.

I believe this is not in the spirit of the WoW any more than the prohibitions. If this is really God's law of health as we bill it then it is all important not just part of it.

I agree.

There is? And just where do I see that spelled out?

The WoW itself, which is now a commandment upon which Temple worship is predicated. This makes it a covenant relationship between ourselves and the Lord and as much a part of the other covenants we renew by taking the sacrement each Sunday. The covenant itself is spelled out in fair detail in the canonical text of the WoW.

I think you are reading into this too much. The WOW certainly had commandment status with special emphasis on the prohibitions but I do not see it as a covenant.

[_Seven]

Thomas G. Alexander, LDS historian from BYU, and author of the book
"Mormonism in Transition"
http://www.amazon.com/Mormonism-Transit ... 0252065786
nicely details the history of the WoW. (from a pro LDS position)

I bolded the excerpts from the book and review I found interesting back when I studied section 89 for a church lesson:
http://www.vegsource.com/articles/cantano_review.htm

"Although Brigham Young declared the Word of Wisdom to be commandment and secured the approval of some of the Saints to that proposition, he announced no revelation on the subject, and actual observance did not coincide with public pronouncement. An 1851 conference and in some cases other conference addresses or reminiscences of addresses are often cited as the date the Word of Wisdom became binding as a commandment. However, during Brigham Young's lifetime, after the conference, he and other church leaders and members failed to observe the Word of Wisdom as we interpret it today. " (259)

"While I also agree that the Word of Wisdom probably should not strictly be considered a commandment, what the author failed to examine is that the first three verses of Doctrine and Covenants Section 89 (which chronicles the revelation) were added after it was received (see the heading of Section 89). If one begins reading at verse four, it appears to be as much a commandment as anything God has given humankind in recorded scripture. The softening from a "commandment" to a "recommendation" most likely came about because of the resistance of the earliest Latter-day Saints to abandon long-held habits."

"Lorenzo Snow, the president of the Council of the Twelve...believed the Word of Wisdom was a commandment and that it should be carried out to the letter. In doing so, he said, members should be taught to refrain from eating meat except in dire necessity, particularly since Joseph Smith taught that animals have spirits. President Woodruff, then president of the church, said he looked upon the Word of Wisdom as a commandment and that all members should observe it, but for the present, he said, no definite action should be taken except the members should be taught to refrain from the use of meat." (259)

"Sadly, the don't-eat-meat-except-in-dire-necessity concept is given very little emphasis in the LDS Church today. However, again showing the divergence of opinion among Mormons on this matter Alexander writes:"

"Though it seems clear that some church leaders like Heber J. Grant and Joseph F. Smith insisted upon complete abstinence from tea, coffee, and tobacco, all general authorities did not agree. Lorenzo Snow again emphasized the centrality of not eating meat, and in 1901 John Henry Smith and Brigham Young, Jr., of the Twelve thought that the church ought not interdict beer, or at least not Danish beer." (260)

"Some current Latter-day Saints become very uncomfortable if they see in others any divergence from the minimum standard the church now teaches which is no alcohol, tobacco or recreational drugs including (relatively recently) all caffeinated drinks. They seem threatened if someone points out that the Word of Wisdom advises a limited consumption of meat--a practice few Mormons follow today. Again illustrating a similar diversity of thought on the matter a century ago Alexander writes:"

"We find then a diffuse pattern in observing and teaching the Word of Wisdom in 1900. Some general authorities preached quite consistently against the use of tea, coffee, liquor, tobacco, and meat. None supported drunkenness, and no one insisted on the necessity of vegetarianism. In practice, however they and other members also occasionally drank the beverages which current interpretation would prohibit." (260)

"I know of no credible LDS authority who has ever stated that animal flesh cannot be consumed in emergencies. While animals are considered to have divinely created spirits (a doctrine unique to the LDS faith among Christians, I believe) it has always been held that humans are of a higher order and can take animal life if it becomes necessary to preserve human life. Sadly, many Mormons today think bacon and eggs for breakfast, a burger and a milkshake for lunch, and a roast for dinner are somehow "necessary." They've also been programmed to believe that things like obesity, cancer, heart disease, and diabetes are "naturally occurring" conditions.

The author refreshingly illustrates how one lay member's influence can eventually affect the entire church:"

"In addition to liquor, tobacco, tea, and coffee, some members of the church urged that the prohibitions of the Word of Wisdom ought to be broader. In March 1917 Frederick J. Pack of the University of Utah published an article in the Improvement Era [an LDS publication] dealing with the question, "Should LDS Drink Coca-Cola?" His answer was no. His argument was not that the Word of Wisdom prohibited such drinks, but that such drinks contained the same drugs as tea and coffee." (267)

Prof. Alexander then asks:

"What role did revelation play in the matter? Section 89 of the Doctrine and Covenants was clearly given as a revelation to Joseph Smith. Advice that the members of the church adhere to the word of Wisdom was undoubtedly given under inspiration. There is, however, no contemporary evidence of which I am aware that a separate new revelation was given changing the word of Wisdom from a "principle with promise" to a "commandment" necessary for full participation in all blessings of church membership." (268)

"Thus the confluence of a number of forces, religious and secular, rather than a single force led to a change in the interpretation of the Word of Wisdom...An understanding of the way in which the current interpretation of the Word of Wisdom developed is significant...since it provides a case study of doctrinal and policy development in the church." (270)

"This gives me hope that all the current non-LDS efforts promoting reduced meat consumption may eventually lead the Latter-day Saints to a better understanding and application of their own doctrine. There certainly is a need. Although Mormons benefit statistically from abstaining from alcohol, tobacco and drugs, the LDS population is trending in the wrong direction in reference to diet-related degenerative diseases. The trend lines for heart disease, diabetes and obesity are all moving closer to the national norm. Reducing meat consumption to Word of Wisdom levels would bless Mormons greatly."