To Mr Scratch

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_Mister Scratch
_Emeritus
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Re: To Mr Scratch

Post by _Mister Scratch »

Daniel Peterson wrote:Scratch, you know I think you're crazy. Go ahead and send anything you want to my stake president. Distribute anything you like at the Claremont conference. (That'll be an amusing spectacle.) Try to get me excommunicated by sharing your baseless lunatic speculations about my salary with Church leaders.

Really.


So.... what? Now I'm *not" some kind of viciously hostile thug? I'm an innocuous nutcase? Gee, make up your mind, Prof. P. This kind of inconsistency will really undermine your credibility.
_Mister Scratch
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Re: To Mr Scratch

Post by _Mister Scratch »

The Nehor wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:As much as I'm a fan of your desperate mind-reading acts, I have a question for you: Do you want me to be "personally hostile"? I can do that, if you'd like. Would you like an assemblage of your gossip and the like mailed to the Brethren? Would you like your skinny-l trashtalk photocopied and distributed at the upcoming Claremont conference, and mailed to your Stake President?


Please do this Scratch. I think it would be hilarious. Stake Presidents and Apostles need a good laugh too.


No. Obviously, I would never do such a thing, even though I sometimes think it's worth asking: Do TBMs like you actually value your Church membership and reputation? You claim that it would all be some "big laugh," but I think we all know that a very small bit of malicious gossip can do a huge amount of damage within the culture of the Church. Believe me: a person with a vendetta once mailed something to the Stake President of somebody close to me and it caused a great deal of pain and grief. So, go ahead and yuk it up, Nehor.
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: To Mr Scratch

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Mister Scratch wrote:So.... what? Now I'm *not" some kind of viciously hostile thug? I'm an innocuous nutcase?

I've never said you were "innocuous."

You're a viciously hostile loon. I've been consistent on that for quite some time, since I decided that you probably weren't joking.
_Mister Scratch
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Re: To Mr Scratch

Post by _Mister Scratch »

Daniel Peterson wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:So.... what? Now I'm *not" some kind of viciously hostile thug? I'm an innocuous nutcase?

I've never said you were "innocuous."

You're a viciously hostile loon. I've been consistent on that for quite some time, since I decided that you probably weren't joking.



Hey, that's fantastic. Meanwhile, I'll simply point out that you still haven't produced any real evidence that I've peddled "flat-out falsehoods." Also, you've lost pretty miserably on the payment issue, Don Peterson. Perhaps you should issue a statement retracting Midgley's "Old Cash Nexus" essay?
_antishock8
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Re: To Mr Scratch

Post by _antishock8 »

Daniel Peterson wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:So.... what? Now I'm *not" some kind of viciously hostile thug? I'm an innocuous nutcase?

I've never said you were "innocuous."

You're a viciously hostile loon. I've been consistent on that for quite some time, since I decided that you probably weren't joking.


At least he wasn't part of destroying someone's reputation and employment.
You can’t trust adults to tell you the truth.

Scream the lie, whisper the retraction.- The Left
_Mister Scratch
_Emeritus
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Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:13 pm

Re: To Mr Scratch

Post by _Mister Scratch »

antishock8 wrote:
Daniel Peterson wrote:I've never said you were "innocuous."

You're a viciously hostile loon. I've been consistent on that for quite some time, since I decided that you probably weren't joking.


At least he wasn't part of destroying someone's reputation and employment.


Well said. I think it's remarkably telling that both DCP and The Nehor apparently thing that doing such a thing would be funny. It makes sense that DCP rather foolishly admitted to one of my "informants" that he did not want to know my off-line identity, presumably because he would not be able to rein-in his essentially vindictive nature. These guys thrive on trying to make others suffer.
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: To Mr Scratch

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Liz:

I'm quite confident that you don't fall for Scratch's sophistic nonsense. But here's a thought that will perhaps clarify the situation.

Scratch believes, or claims to believe, that having a role in the management of an organization that (among many other things) does apologetics is, in itself, to do apologetics.

But it seems absurd to suggest that such an organization's accountant, in keeping the books of the organization, is doing apologetics. Certainly there's a distinction to be made between tracking income and expenditures for such an organization and actually writing an essay responding to a criticism of the Church.

Consider this, too: My college at BYU, the College of Humanities, contains departments of English, linguistics, Asian and Near Eastern languages, humanities, classics, comparative literature, Germanic and Slavic Languages, Spanish and Portuguese, philosophy, French and Italian, and perhaps some other department that I've forgotten off hand.

The current dean of the college, John Rosenberg, is a professor of Spanish literature.

Isn't it obvious that, in administering the college, he's not, as such, doing scholarship on Spanish literature, let alone on Japanese linguistics, continental philosophy, Dante studies, Homeric poetry, Dostoevsky, or Emily Dickinson? Wouldn't it be transparently absurd to claim that, in his capacity as dean, he was being paid to do humanities scholarship? He's being paid to manage rank and tenure decisions, handle budgets, allocate space, distribute professorships, and the like. And, most likely, he'd much rather be working on his own academic interests, but carries out his duties as dean out of a spirit of university citizenship and a sense of obligation.
_antishock8
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Re: To Mr Scratch

Post by _antishock8 »

What does Mr. Peterson produce while on the "company dime"?

Oh. Yeah.

Journal of Book of Mormon Studies
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Nephi and His Asherah
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Editor's Introduction (Volume 3 Issue 1)
Editor's Introduction (Volume 6 Issue 1)
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Editor's Introduction—Not So Easily Dismissed: Some Facts for Which Counterexplanations of the Book of Mormon Will Need to Account (Volume 17 Issue 2)
Editor's Introduction—The Witchcraft Paradigm: On Claims to (Volume 18 Issue 2)
Ein Heldenleben? On Thomas Stuart Ferguson as an Elias for Cultural Mormons (Volume 16 Issue 1)
A review of "Quest for the Gold Plates: Thomas Stuart Ferguson's Archaeological Search for the Book of Mormon." Written by Stan Larson
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Introduction (Volume 7 Issue 2)
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What Certain Baptists Think They Know about the Restored Gospel (Volume 10 Issue 1)
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Yet More Abuse of B. H. Roberts (Volume 9 Issue 1)
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Comparing LDS Beliefs with First-Century Christianity
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Echoes and Evidences of the Book of Mormon:
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Not Joseph's, and Not Modern
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Nephi and His Asherah: A Note on 1 Nephi 11:8—23
Offenders for a Word:
Introduction
Is Mormonism Christian? An Investigation of Definitions, part 1
Is Mormonism Christian? An Investigation of Definitions, part 2
Is Mormonism Christian? An Investigation of Definitions, part 3
Mormonism as "Cult": The Limits of Lexical Polemics
Reexploring the Book of Mormon:
"Secret Combinations"
The Disciple as Scholar: Essays on Scripture and the Ancient World in Honor of Richard Lloyd Anderson:
The Throne Theophany/Prophetic Call of Muḥammad
Ye Are Gods: Psalm 82 and John 10 as Witnesses to the Divine Nature of Humankind
To All the World: The Book of Mormon Articles from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism:
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The Gadianton Robbers as Guerrilla Warriors
Notes on "Gadianton Masonry"



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You can’t trust adults to tell you the truth.

Scream the lie, whisper the retraction.- The Left
_Daniel Peterson
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Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:56 pm

Re: To Mr Scratch

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Poor antishock8 seems to really believe that, by repeatedly posting that list of my secret publications with FARMS, he's made the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative and my Muhammad biography and Abraham Divided and my other articles and encyclopedia entries and lectures and classes on Islam disappear.

Weird.

Mister Scratch wrote:
antishock8 wrote:At least he wasn't part of destroying someone's reputation and employment.

Well said. I think it's remarkably telling that both DCP and The Nehor apparently thing that doing such a thing would be funny. . . . These guys thrive on trying to make others suffer.

This is the kind of nonsense that I came here to contradict.

While the Scratches and some of their epigones may actually believe it, I'm reasonably confident that normal people even here on this board probably don't. Still, I thought it important to show up to explicitly deny and contradict some of this outlandishness, lest a few here, worn down by Scratch's incessant campaign of wacked out malevolence, come to think it plausible.

Mister Scratch wrote:It makes sense that DCP rather foolishly admitted to one of my "informants" that he did not want to know my off-line identity, presumably because he would not be able to rein-in his essentially vindictive nature.

LOL. Unbelievable. It would be almost impossible to invent a better illustration of Scratchist method.

Even my express lack of interest in figuring out Scratch's real-world identity, despite his three-year campaign of incessant defamation against me, is taken as evidence of my moral depravity.

As Karl Popper liked to point out, when a hypothesis is absolutely unfalsifiable, when each and every fact counts in its favor and nothing is ever permitted to count against it, it's worthless.
_Mister Scratch
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Re: To Mr Scratch

Post by _Mister Scratch »

Daniel Peterson wrote:Liz:

I'm quite confident that you don't fall for Scratch's sophistic nonsense. But here's a thought that will perhaps clarify the situation.


If, by "clarify the situation" you actually mean, "provide a case study in sophistry," then you're right.

Scratch believes, or claims to believe, that having a role in the management of an organization that (among many other things) does apologetics is, in itself, to do apologetics.


Cf. the Mission Statement. Apologetics is the main thing that FARMS is all about, and as I pointed out, even the tangential projects---the Dead Sea Scrolls, for instance---wind up receiving a Mopologetic spin.

But it seems absurd to suggest that such an organization's accountant, in keeping the books of the organization, is doing apologetics. Certainly there's a distinction to be made between tracking income and expenditures for such an organization and actually writing an essay responding to a criticism of the Church.


It would seem absurd if that was the claim being made, but it's not. (And weren't you just criticizing Silent Kid over reading comprehension?) No one is suggesting that the accountant would be "doing Mopologetics" any more that one might suggest that a Mob accountant would be "doing crime." But, just as the Mafia accountant is getting paid by way of the Mafia, the FARMS accountant is getting paid by way of Mopologetics. The Mafia exists primarily to make money, just as FARMS exists primarily to do apologetics. Sure, FARMS does "other things," but so does the Mafia.

Consider this, too: My college at BYU, the College of Humanities, contains departments of English, linguistics, Asian and Near Eastern languages, humanities, classics, comparative literature, Germanic and Slavic Languages, Spanish and Portuguese, philosophy, French and Italian, and perhaps some other department that I've forgotten off hand.

The current dean of the college, John Rosenberg, is a professor of Spanish literature.

Isn't it obvious that, in administering the college, he's not, as such, doing scholarship on Spanish literature, let alone on Japanese linguistics, continental philosophy, Dante studies, Homeric poetry, Dostoevsky, or Emily Dickinson? Wouldn't it be transparently absurd to claim that, in his capacity as dean, he was being paid to do humanities scholarship?


Who's claiming that? It *would* be accurate to claim that he is getting paid for administering Humanities scholarship, just as it's accurate to claim that Tony Soprana was paid to oversee his Family, and that you were getting paid for administering an apologetic organization. Feel free to tell us yet again that FARMS does "other things." The Brethren-sanctioned Mission Statement of FARMS (which may as well amount to official doctrine) tells us that the main reason for FARMS existence is apologetics. You can puff all you want about how you guys do other things. Tony Soprano can tell the senate subcommittee that his crew also sold cookies at the bake sale. It won't change the essential character of the organization.


He's being paid to manage rank and tenure decisions, handle budgets, allocate space, distribute professorships, and the like. And, most likely, he'd much rather be working on his own academic interests, but carries out his duties as dean out of a spirit of university citizenship and a sense of obligation.


You are describing his daily activities; you're not telling us the basic reason why he is being paid. Again: Tony Soprano, in a given day, might go out to get the paper, eat his breakfast, pay a visit to Bada-Bing, meet with Silvio, go to AJ's soccer game, and meet Carmella for dinner. Sure, he might "rather be working" on killing and extortion, but he carries out his duties as Chief in the spirit of family and a sense of obligation.

The Dean is being paid to oversee the humanities, just as Don Soprano is being paid to oversee the family, just as you were paid to oversee apologetics.

You're not going to be able to wiggle out of this, Dan. In order to do that, you'd have to very clearly establish, using specific examples, that FARMS is primarily about something other than apologetics, and given the fact that this would totally contradict the Mission Statement, I don't see that happening. What you are trying to do here would be akin to Pres. Monson claiming that, since he's the head of the Church, he doesn't have anything to do with "perfecting the Saints." After all, the Church does lots of other things! Sorry: it's in the Mission Statement. Either change the mission statement or admit your responsibility. It's as simple as that.
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