Is the World Better or Worse?

[_JAK]

Quote:
I think for most there are large opportunities for the taking if someone will grab them.

asbestosman stated:

I quite agree. The problem is that grabbing them isn't particularly easy if your depressed as I suspect those in abject poverty likely are.

I don't believe that throwing more money at the problem is the solution. I'm not a fan of expanding government programs. I think in most things you and I agree and that you probably do a better job at living it than I do. Mostly I'm just trying to offer a different perspective.

JAK:
How do we solve any “problem”? Virtually all problems, and certainly poverty require money. In addition to money, talent and skill are required. WE don’t solve any problems without first identifying them (which generally costs money). And WE don’t solve those identified problems without funding the solution(s).

It’s a nice phrase that we should not be “throwing more money at the problem…” It’s unrealistic to consider that a serious problem which has been identified can be solved without application of money in a productive way. Poverty is a complex problem. It inherently is intertwined with the abilities, the talents, the knowledge, and the location of people. Of course, no responsible person merely says: Let’s throw some money at a problem.. Your comment implies that. But, without question, money is required for workable solutions to any problems including that of poverty among millions of people who reside in a relatively wealthy country.

JAK

[Analytics]

Quote:
I think for most there are large opportunities for the taking if someone will grab them.

asbestosman stated:

I quite agree. The problem is that grabbing them isn't particularly easy if your depressed as I suspect those in abject poverty likely are.

I don't believe that throwing more money at the problem is the solution. I'm not a fan of expanding government programs. I think in most things you and I agree and that you probably do a better job at living it than I do. Mostly I'm just trying to offer a different perspective.

JAK:
How do we solve any “problem”? Virtually all problems, and certainly poverty require money. In addition to money, talent and skill are required. WE don’t solve any problems without first identifying them (which generally costs money). And WE don’t solve those identified problems without funding the solution(s).

Well, to clarify, I don't mean that we shouldn't fund it at all. Indeed I included the keyword "more" in the phrase "throwing more money" because I realize that some amount of money is required. I just don't think that more money will be useful--at least until we can actually get more of the poor to 1) be aware of the help which is available and 2) find effective ways of encouraging them to use those means. If we truly are short on money, then of course I leave that option open. I think Jason does too and indeed Jason appears to be generous in charity. Perhaps 1) or 2) require more money. So be it. Money spent there would be more effective in my opinion than merely increasing the funding of existing programs which apparently are not well used by those who need them the most.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Abman,

Let money spent there would be more effective in my opinion than merely increasing the funding of existing programs which apparently are not well used by those who need them the most.

Actually, the programs that do exist are very well utilized, at least in every case of which I am aware.

But how many cases can one social worker carry? How many families can DSS support? How much intervention can the community afford?

It takes money to educate children, help and support parents, provide job training. It takes money to pay for the health care of young children; to provide food for malnourished infants.

So where does it come from?

For people (not saying you), who are not supportive of what is going on, I wonder how they think the problems should be solved?

~td~

[_Jason Bourne]

Jersey Girl,

Your point is not only correct, it is important. “Poverty shoves you down.” It is a corollary. The system of law in most Western countries (certainly in the USA) is a system which favors the more wealthy over the less wealthy. As I mentioned, those who cannot afford a car (for example) are required to borrow money (if they want a car) and pay the bank or a car dealership. They pay not only the price on which they agreed, they also pay interest on the money they borrowed. Who gets the money?

You
JAK

I have borrowed money to pay for almost every car I have ever owned. Guess I must be poor.

Or I could have driven the old one longer, saved up and paid cash. Now there is a novel thought.

[_JAK]

Jersey Girl,

Your point is not only correct, it is important. “Poverty shoves you down.” It is a corollary. The system of law in most Western countries (certainly in the USA) is a system which favors the more wealthy over the less wealthy. As I mentioned, those who cannot afford a car (for example) are required to borrow money (if they want a car) and pay the bank or a car dealership. They pay not only the price on which they agreed, they also pay interest on the money they borrowed. Who gets the money?

You
JAK

I have borrowed money to pay for almost every car I have ever owned. Guess I must be poor.

Or I could have driven the old one longer, saved up and paid cash. Now there is a novel thought.

Jason,

It does not follow that you “must be poor.” It does follow that if you pay interest on borrowed money, someone else (a group) makes money. The full post from which you quoted only the first paragraph addressed problems faced by those who lack access not only to wealth but access to reliable information.

JAK

[_Jason Bourne]

Jason,

It does not follow that you “must be poor.” It does follow that if you pay interest on borrowed money, someone else (a group) makes money. The full post from which you quoted only the first paragraph addressed problems faced by those who lack access not only to wealth but access to reliable information.

Yes JAK

I read your post.

So do you think it is wrong for those who loan money to those who cannot pay cash for a car to charge interest? It seems to me your comments about the wealthy benefiting from interest and it being a form of transferring wealth from the poor to those already wealthy imply that something is sinister about this.

Institutions that loan money offer a valuable service to consumers and business people alike. Without this service people who don't have cash would not be able to buy some things, or would have to wait a long time to buy some things. Businesses would not be able to start, grow and invest. Banks also create jobs by providing this valuable service. The economy would grind to a halt with out a credit system. Interest is the cost of this service.

[_harmony]

So do you think it is wrong for those who loan money to those who cannot pay cash for a car to charge interest? It seems to me your comments about the wealthy benefiting from interest and it being a form of transferring wealth from the poor to those already wealthy imply that something is sinister about this.

Institutions that loan money offer a valuable service to consumers and business people alike. Without this service people who don't have cash would not be able to buy some things, or would have to wait a long time to buy some things. Businesses would not be able to start, grow and invest. Banks also create jobs by providing this valuable service. The economy would grind to a halt with out a credit system. Interest is the cost of this service.

I don't think the problem is that everyone who buys a car on credit is charged interest. I think it's that the people who are least able to pay the interest are the ones who are charged the highest rates.

[_Jason Bourne]

I don't think the problem is that everyone who buys a car on credit is charged interest. I think it's that the people who are least able to pay the interest are the ones who are charged the highest rates.

I am opposed to usury. But rates are based on risk. Those least able to pay are usually a higher risk.

[_harmony]

I don't think the problem is that everyone who buys a car on credit is charged interest. I think it's that the people who are least able to pay the interest are the ones who are charged the highest rates.

I am opposed to usury. But rates are based on risk. Those least able to pay are usually a higher risk.

I understand the concept of risk. That doesn't automatically track though. A credit check of a poor person may reveal nothing untoward, yet he will still pay a higher interest rate, even if his credit is spotless, simply because he is poor.

Those without monetary clout have few resources, when it comes to dealing with banks and financial institutions.

Take my credit card for example. It has a very small limit, less than $2500 available. I pay my credit card on time every month and have done for years, paying at least twice and often three times the mandated payment, and never run to the limit. Yet my interest rate was raised twice last year, and now is over 20%. Why? They never said. They just raised it. That's the kind of thing banks can do, and then they wonder why people are screaming when they get bailed out for billions of dollars in bad dept at the taxpayers expense? And when their CEO's testify in front of Congress and look like fools, people come unglued?

[_Jason Bourne]

I understand the concept of risk. That doesn't automatically track though. A credit check of a poor person may reveal nothing untoward, yet he will still pay a higher interest rate, even if his credit is spotless, simply because he is poor.

I agree that his is unfair though I am not sure that is always the case.

Take my credit card for example. It has a very small limit, less than $2500 available. I pay my credit card on time every month and have done for years, paying at least twice and often three times the mandated payment, and never run to the limit. Yet my interest rate was raised twice last year, and now is over 20%. Why? They never said. They just raised it. That's the kind of thing banks can do, and then they wonder why people are screaming when they get bailed out for billions of dollars in bad dept at the taxpayers expense? And when their CEO's testify in front of Congress and look like fools, people come unglued?

in my opinion Banks are fairly low on the food chain of being helpful and ethical especially the credit card divisions, so I won't argue.