Drifting wrote:Stem, are Mormons saved by grace? Or are they saved by grace after all they can do?
Its a false dichotomy. These are equal statements. We all live and do what we can and we're all saved into a eternal life, blessed with a degree of glory, more glorious than that which we can even fathom. That's quite the grace.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
Drifting wrote:Or are they saved by grace after all they can do?
I don't know what it means to do all that one can do. However, I do know that it is not go and sin because we are all saved by grace and god is merciful.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Hmmm, I wonder why Mormons feel so much more guilt than everyone else...
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
Runtu wrote:But my point still stands: LDS grace is insufficient to save people in the celestial kingdom without total effort on their part. Traditional Christianity says grace is sufficient for us to reach heaven. Therein is the radical de-emphasis spoken of.
Let's see,...
In LDS teaching every individual is saved eternally and granted heavenly eternal existence in a degre of glory thanks to the grace of God.
In traditional Christian teaching not all people will be saved eternally and granted heavenly eternal existence in a degree of glory thanks to the grace of God.
It seems to me your point has backfired on you. Grace is far more extensive and far more pervasive for LDS teaching than for the traditional Christian teaching.
In Mormonism you don't get anything desirable from Grace. Grace gets you into places no Mormon wants to go.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
Drifting wrote:Stem, are Mormons saved by grace? Or are they saved by grace after all they can do?
Its a false dichotomy. These are equal statements. We all live and do what we can and we're all saved into a eternal life, blessed with a degree of glory, more glorious than that which we can even fathom. That's quite the grace.
Stem, the dichotomy is in the final destination. Can you return to live with your Heavenly Father on grace alone or do you in fact have to do all the things necessary to be worthy of a temple recommend?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Buffalo wrote:In Mormonism you don't get anything desirable from Grace. Grace gets you into places no Mormon wants to go.
It also doesn't get you what Christian grace gets you...to be with God again.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
Drifting wrote:Stem, are Mormons saved by grace? Or are they saved by grace after all they can do?
Its a false dichotomy. These are equal statements. We all live and do what we can and we're all saved into a eternal life, blessed with a degree of glory, more glorious than that which we can even fathom. That's quite the grace.
Are you aware what the word "grace" actually means?
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
just me wrote:Hmmm, I wonder why Mormons feel so much more guilt than everyone else...
Because they know the truth and the truth is: try not to sin and if one does, ask for forgiveness and try not to commit the same sin. Also, they love god and since god stresses to live the commandments, one may feel remorse or bad for not doing so.
However, you can join the UU church. They seem to be quite loose with sin.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Look, all you have to do is head on over to Mormon.org and look at all the happy Mormon people. Do they *look* like they are a people driven by guilt and shame? Of course the hell not! Look at those city buses with the Mormon.org ads on the side. They look so guilt free and happy! Not only that. They look normal! Maybe Mormons that have trouble with guilt and shame aren't normal. Ever thought about that?
Why do all you ex-mormon people try to make the church look bad needlessly! You must have little axes and hatches and chainsaws to grind. Sheesh. This place is such a cesspool.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)
Buffalo wrote:In Mormonism you don't get anything desirable from Grace. Grace gets you into places no Mormon wants to go.
I've known many a Mormon that would say if they receive the Terrestrial or Telestial glory they will happily embrace that. And, to be true, this is merely distraction anyway. Afterall grace is given to all in LDS teaching, as opposed to only some in the traditional Christian teaching.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.