Really this is consiced appropriate on a Sunday???? WTF

[_Blixa]

I agree that any sex-related talk on this board usually devolves rather quickly into the sophomoric. I am starting to understand better what made you angry about the Bishop's talk. It seems you are mad because the bishop seems overconfident in his judgments and overconfident in his delivery, and his definciency of insight into the topic plus his hamhanded delivery offend your sensibilities. Is this a reasonable read on my part?

Yep. I imagine it would have been pretty creepy to be in that audience and that's why I think the original blogger had such an extreme reaction. Creepy, invasive, and very pressuring. Your discussion, as it's developed here, is something different. I may still have some disagreement (or not) with you, but your entire orientation has been open to the possibility that 1) not everyone is the same and 2) there may be multiple reasons for "the problem" (if there is one).

Of course, some of "the trouble" itself are the unnatural and rigid expectations and assumptions about sex that abound in Mormon culture. This fathead just threw gasoline on a fire.

[_why me]

What the bishop did was spiritually and emotionally abusive.

Were you there? I don't think so. We have no idea what happened. The only thing that we have is the testimony of one person. Not enough to hang a man without others coming forward.

[_Drifting]

Were you there? I don't think so. We have no idea what happened. The only thing that we have is the testimony of one person. Not enough to hang a man without others coming forward.

Were you there at the First Vision? No? We have no idea what happened. The only thing we have is the testimony of one person...but you choose to believe it happened.

Your issue is not with the number of witnesses. You just don't want it to be true.

[_palerobber]

Not only is "duty sex" uncomfortable for a female (literally, physiologically uncomfortable and not pleasurable), but its also not good emotionally/psychologically and it's not good for your marriage. It's also not good for YOU.

uh, speak for yourself, newlywed telling people they should only take marriage advice from experts : )

personally, i don't see any logical reason why sex would be excepted from the general give and take of accommodation, compromise, and reciprocity that's one of the hallmarks of a healthy marriage. it's not like our bodies are holy temples or something.

but i'm open to argument, were someone to make one.

[Guest]

i guess i should add, to be clear, none of my comments on this thread are intended to endorse this bishop's stupid and inappropriate presentation. i'm just commenting on the large issue.

[_Bob Loblaw]

uh, speak for yourself, newlywed telling people they should only take marriage advice from experts : )

personally, i don't see any logical reason why sex would be excepted from the general give and take of accommodation, compromise, and reciprocity that's one of the hallmarks of a healthy marriage. it's not like our bodies are holy temples or something.

but I'm open to argument, were someone to make one.

Give and take is great. What I find troubling is the notion that we're keeping score, as if there is a ledger by which if my wife puts out, I agree to let her go shopping or whatever. If that's the state of your marriage, you have serious problems.

[_palerobber]

uh, speak for yourself, newlywed telling people they should only take marriage advice from experts : )

personally, i don't see any logical reason why sex would be excepted from the general give and take of accommodation, compromise, and reciprocity that's one of the hallmarks of a healthy marriage. it's not like our bodies are holy temples or something.

but I'm open to argument, were someone to make one.

Give and take is great. What I find troubling is the notion that we're keeping score, as if there is a ledger by which if my wife puts out, I agree to let her go shopping or whatever. If that's the state of your marriage, you have serious problems.

i don't disagree with you.

[_Jhall118]

Wow dude, did I piss in your wheaties and not notice? WTF?

You couldn't have possibly noticed the excessive amount of smileys? Wow you are wound up, perhaps you should get more of that one sided sex to release the tension, or perhaps maybe there is more to sex than not regretting it?

Since you've already admitted you're only 24, let me suggest that the year or two of newlywed sex you've been having hasn't really taught you as much as you think it has about the evolution of sexual relationships in a longterm marriage, ie: over many decades. Come back and talk to us again in 20-30 years and let us all know how it really is again.

Fair enough. You think I am not old enough to understand what it's like when your wife doesn't want to have sex with you. It doesn't take 20 years of marriage to encounter that problem unfortunately. I've encountered it plenty of times, and am embarrassed to say that I resorted to making my partner feel guilty or begging for it. A few times she agreed, and it was among my worst sexual experiences. Maybe you are into that though.

I would go so far to say that the stereotype you made earlier (that men are more interested in sex) is not true in a single couple I have encountered. Now, there are conditions in both men and women that effect sex drive, but I don't think those conditions are predominately male or Female. Maybe you could Google me some proof. I am working on my PhD in Neuroscience so hopefully I could follow anything you pull up.

First off, I agree that underlying problems in a marriage won't be fixed just by sex, and need to be addressed separately.

Okay we are halfway there.

Secondly, "duty sex" is not a term I love, and I did not invent it or introduce it into this conversation. I don't know if you were still addressing comments at me by this point in your post, but if so, I am not, and never have advocated that a woman simply lie there and take it while thinking of England.

I'm not sure if we actually disagree at this point. Is it that you don't understand why women would get offended at the presentation, or that you think this:

that sometimes his wife isn't interested in sex, but will sometimes "give in" and have it anyway, and she never, ever regrets it.

Is advantageous to or the same as having sex where your... I mean your friends... wife is actually enjoying it? Not just "not regretting it", but enjoying it?

Quite frankly, if there is every an extended period of time where my wife did not want to have sex with me, barring medical issues, I would consider getting a divorce and finding someone that I can have a sexual relationship with. Then again, I know how to get my wife in the mood.

Convinced? I'm not surprised if you aren't. It's a lot easier to blame the wives for husbands shortcomings.

[_palerobber]

Having sex when you don't want to, or have been manipulated or guilted into it, sucks.

could you not just as accurately say that doing any activity when you don't want to, or have been manipulated or guilted into it, sucks?

why does it suck more when that activity is sex?

(not challenging you, just curious of your perspective)

[_Bob Loblaw]

could you not just as accurately say that doing any activity when you don't want to, or have been manipulated or guilted into it, sucks?

why does it suck more when that activity is sex?

(not challenging you, just curious of your perspective)

It's an inconvenience if I get manipulated into taking out the trash or doing the dishes. Sex, on the other hand, is supposed to be something intimate that connects us as partners physically and emotionally; using manipulation or guilt makes sex into something no more important than taking out the trash.