MG & JLHPROF: From Whence Come Spiritual Experiences?

[_mentalgymnast]

1. Would you listen and obey?
2. How would you feel about being 'spoon fed'?
3. How do you feel about 'helicopter parents'?

Back to number one...

How would you respond to God...in personal conversation...if He was telling you stuff that you didn't agree with? For example, let's say he directly told you to obey a certain and defined law of chastity/morality. Or a certain way of taking care of your body...no drinking, smoking cigars, no coffee/tea. Or that you needed to make promises to Him or you weren't going to be able come home with Him at a later date. Or that you needed to take a day off each week and go to church and serve in callings...etc. Or if He told you to donate at least 10% of your income to doing stuff like building temples, etc.

If He told you directly ...face to face...to do these things, and others, would you be cool with that? If not, where would you and God go from there?

Would you remain 'best buds'?

I think your concerns revolve mainly around, "Why doesn't God clearly/directly identify Himself to me?"

Right?

Regards,
MG

I'll play along...

1. Would you listen and obey? Listen, yes. Obey, maybe. I would still have my agency but, the cool thing is, at least I would be getting the information straight from the source, rather than having to rely on middle-men, personal interpretation, and unreliable feelings.
2. How would you feel about being 'spoon fed'? When it comes to eternal reward/damnation, I am perfectly fine with being spoon-fed. Again, at least I would be getting the information straight from the source so I would be able to make a better decision.
3. How do you feel about 'helicopter parents'? As opposed to parents that won't even talk face-to-face with their children? Yeah, I'd take the helicopter parent any day. You would think that god could meet somewhere in the middle and at least show up on birthdays, graduations, etc. to actually speak to his kids.

So I'd love to have a face-to-face with god because I would know exactly where I stood, I would know god's expectations of me, and I would be able to clarify contradictions - all while maintaining my agency. Those reasons listed are exactly opposite of how god (allegedly) communicates with his children now. The way I see it, god isn't much different than any dead-beat dad. The difference being we give god a free pass and we blame his children.

I hear where you're coming from. That would be cool to have a face-to-face. All I can really say to that...is good luck, man. I really don't think God is going to do a 'face to face' with every person on the planet. If you're actually waiting for that to happen...see ya' later.

And if He does it for you, He better dang well do it for me and the other seven and a half billion people. Oh wait, one just died in Sarajevo and He didn't get to them on time. Oops!

Aarrgh... another one bit the dust in Fuyang, China...and God was up in Siberia doing a face-to-face with Uygun the Yakut. C'mon, God, get a movin' so you can get to The Soap Maker!

Regards,
MG

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Tator, DocCam, and Lemmie. De-railers extraordinaire.

I'm not going to take the time to respond to you. And I won't feed you.

Regards,
MG

You literally just responded to her.

I know that. But I won't continue to feed her...or you.

MG

You literally just 'fed' me, you literally continue to derail the thread with the derail you started, and you're literally too dumb to understand what you're doing.

And in the spirit of making the thread come full circle, some brains are literally incapable of knowing just how “F” ing moronic they are.

- Doc

[_mentalgymnast]

You literally just 'fed' me, you literally continue to derail the thread with the derail you started, and you're literally too dumb to understand what you're doing.

And in the spirit of making the thread come full circle, some brains are literally incapable of knowing just how ____ ing moronic they are.

- Doc

You're no fun.

MG

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I hear where you're coming from. That would be cool to have a face-to-face. All I can really say to that...is good luck, man. I really don't think God is going to do a 'face to face' with every person on the planet. If you're actually waiting for that to happen...see ya' later.

And if He does it for you, He better dang well do it for me and the other seven and a half billion people. Oh wait, one just died in Sarajevo and He didn't get to them on time. Oops!

Aarrgh... another one bit the dust in Fuyang, China...and God was up in Siberia doing a face-to-face with Uygun the Yakut. C'mon, God, get a movin' so you can get to The Soap Maker!

Regards,
MG

What a dick answer.

You have a remarkably prodigious self awareness of your own superiority.

Regards,
MG

... I consider MG as a bit passive aggressive and sorely afflicted by faith, he seems to be still rational in the main.

Not sure where the "passive aggressive" is coming from. I know others have expressed this along the way, but I'm somewhat perplexed as to why you might say this as a result of any interactions I've had with you?

Regards,
MG

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

You literally just 'fed' me, you literally continue to derail the thread with the derail you started, and you're literally too dumb to understand what you're doing.

And in the spirit of making the thread come full circle, some brains are literally incapable of knowing just how ____ ing moronic they are.

- Doc

You're no fun.

MG

Tator, DocCam, and Lemmie. De-railers extraordinaire.

I'm not going to take the time to respond to you. And I won't feed you.

Regards,
MG

You literally just responded to her.

I know that. But I won't continue to feed her...or you.

MG

[_mentalgymnast]

You literally just 'fed' me, you literally continue to derail the thread with the derail you started, and you're literally too dumb to understand what you're doing.

And in the spirit of making the thread come full circle, some brains are literally incapable of knowing just how ____ ing moronic they are.

- Doc

You're no fun.

MG

by the way, Doc, this is what I said to Lemmie:

How many of these could be considered to be examples of derail without substantively adding to the discussion and muddying the waters?

Tator, DocCam, and Lemmie. De-railers extraordinaire.

I'm not going to take the time to respond to you. And I won't feed you.

I said I wouldn't take the time to respond to her. You, along with Tator and Lemmie, were listed as de-railers. I was addressing her. Can you see that? I don't think I've responded to her since I made that post.

You were troll#1, Tator was #2, and Lemmie was #3. She is usually the more long winded of the trolls, though. She throws up flak all over the place to distract folks from the actual conversation/discussion.

Anyway, I won't respond to her unless the situation DEMANDS it. As I've said before, I have this thing about sticking up for my personal integrity when it is attacked by the likes of you and the 'Queen of Derails'. But I'll do my best to ignore her for the remainder of this thread. Happy now?

I hope I'm done with you on this thread. You are a colossal waste of time and energy.

Soap Maker was the last post worthy of actually responding to. You're simply taking up space on the thread with little or nothing to say of value.

MG

[_Lemmie]

as usual, mental has managed to start a derail so he can then spend multiple posts talking about himself.

Going back to the topic, I thought ihaq's question was quite interesting:

How do you practice differentiating between spiritual phenomena and simple constructs/fabrications of the mind, when you cannot identify how, specifically, to differentiate between spiritual phenomena and simple constructs/fabrications of the mind?

It's significant that it was not responded to (with the exception of mental's derailing personal innuendo-laden comment), even though DrW laid the groundwork for what a response might require:

Those who depend on "spiritual" feelings as an integral part of their lives and worldview should at least have the discernment to properly attribute the source and characteristics of these feelings, keeping in mind that a delusion is a belief that is held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I was troll #1. You were troll#2, Tator was #3, and Lemmie was #4. She is usually the more long winded of the trolls, though. She throws up flak all over the place to distract folks from the actual conversation/discussion.

Anyway, I won't respond to her unless the situation DEMANDS it. As I've said before, I have this thing about sticking up for my personal integrity when it is attacked by the likes of you and the 'Queen of Derails'. But I'll do my best to ignore her for the remainder of this thread. Happy now?

I hope I'm done with you on this thread. You are a colossal waste of time and energy.

Soap Maker was the last post worthy of actually responding to. You're simply taking up space on the thread with little or nothing to say of value.

MG

FTFY

Your responses do not lend themselves to a productive/civil conversation and/or discussion. It does lead us down a road that ultimately leads to a cul-de-sac/dead end where we find ourselves going round and round wasting each other's time. Rather than leading us in an unproductive/uncivil direction, you might want to add substantively to the discussion?

Regards,
Doc

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

It's significant that it was not responded to (with the exception of mental's derailing personal innuendo-laden comment), even though DrW laid the groundwork for what a response might require:

Those who depend on "spiritual" feelings as an integral part of their lives and worldview should at least have the discernment to properly attribute the source and characteristics of these feelings, keeping in mind that a delusion is a belief that is held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.

I guess my question is this:

How does the hidden esoteric knowledge of God possibly get conveyed in manner that has to be universally understood and accepted in order to be true for everyone?

- Doc

[_I have a question]

And it's important to remember that much of what we may call spiritual phenomena IS simply a construct/fabrication of the mind. It takes time and practice to differentiate between pure mental processes and those impressions on the mind that may come/originate elsewhere.

How do you practice differentiating between spiritual phenomena and simple constructs/fabrications of the mind, when you cannot identify how, specifically, to differentiate between spiritual phenomena and simple constructs/fabrications of the mind?

I think I'm getting better at it. I don't think I can say/share much more than that with you because I believe it's something we each have to experience/know for ourselves.

That’s not answering the question, that’s avoiding answering the question. The question, which stems from your assertion, was:
How do you practice differentiating between spiritual phenomena and simple constructs/fabrications of the mind, when you cannot identify how, specifically, to differentiate between spiritual phenomena and simple constructs/fabrications of the mind?

Back at a time when I was where you are currently at, I did however, rely on the fact that others told/shared with me that they had been able to...over time...tell the difference. At the time I questioned that. Just as you do. It took time and my own experiences/feelings/thoughts along the way to come to a different point of view. Not that I'm an absolute expert.

You know where I am currently at?

But I can see, and I think I know, where your question is coming from. And as long as you're asking this question in all honesty and looking for possible answers, I think it's great that you're asking it.

My question is coming directly from your assertion. I’m asking it because you claimed one can differentiate between spiritual phenomena and simple constructs/fabrications of the mind through ‘practice’. I’m simply enquiring as to what, specifically, is involved in that practicing and how that practice leads to being able to differentiate. What are the key discernible differences between spiritual phenomena and simple constructs/fabrications of the mind that you have uncovered through practice?
Both should be easily answerable questions because you’ve done the practice - so you know what that practice looks like. And you’ve learned to differentiate - so you know what the key differences are.

If you’ve done those things, you can explain them.
Unless you choose to avoid answering them, in which case we are left to conclude that your original assertion was less than honest.

So I’ll give you the benefit of asking a last time...
How do you practice differentiating between spiritual phenomena and simple constructs/fabrications of the mind, when you cannot identify how, specifically, to differentiate between spiritual phenomena and simple constructs/fabrications of the mind?