Here Comes The Book of Abraham Part I, II, III

[_Shulem]

Shulem, based on current apologetics, people don't need my help, the seed of destruction has already been sown and the further the members learn, the worse it gets, and it's been downhill since Nibley died. Nothing has come up that works for them since 1985, when Ritner showed up and Gee fell over from exhaustion of attempts to make it work and couldn't get it to.

Great to hear from YOU, Philo!

You're my pal.

[_Shulem]

people don't need my help

Maybe your help is not required in order to change people's minds but people do like to hear from you when you talk about the Book of Abraham and things associated with it.

I still think you could have some fun doing a podcast on something about the Book of Abraham. It's ground you have traveled and you are familiar with it. So, just keep an open mind and consider the possibilities.

That's all I'm saying on that.

[_Shulem]

One very important part that today's apologists have not realized in trying to formulate their ***NEW*** Catalyst Theory is that Smith was every bit interested in claiming to translate papyrus (through whatever means) as he was also dating the papyrus and identifying mummies to be of a royal household. The entire claim together is a giant fiasco on Smith's part and proof positive he was wrong on every account and on every front. His inspiration was flawed and his testimony was false. I can prove that and I will!

1. Smith couldn't translate.
2. Smith couldn't date papyrus.
3. Smith couldn't identify mummies.

Take these three things into account and you have a solid case in proving Smith was a fraud. This is something that apologists have overlooked and have given Smith a pass or have blinked their eyes too many times and failed to make the fatal connection between these three points of conflict. But, I'm here now. I'm going to ram it down their throats in "Here Comes the Book of Abraham Part II". You will have a wonderful front seat row in witnessing Shulem destroy the Book of Abraham for everyone to see. The apologists aren't going to be able to save it. Trust me! The Book of Abraham is doomed.

It will be a most unpleasant and bitter pill for the apologists to have to swallow. No more blue pills. They are going to have to swallow the red ones.

Open up, you apologists, and take the pills. The evidence I am about to present will overwhelm you!

[_Shulem]

Run for you life!

Here Comes The Book of Abraham Part II is coming SOON!



The Mormon Mummies are coming for you! Quick Hide!

[_Shulem]

To the Apologists of the Mormon church:

Welcome to my Nightmare. Joseph Smith's mummies are coming for you!

There is no escape. The Catalyst Theory won't save you!

Your doom is sealed.

[_Fence Sitter]

Take these three things into account and you have a solid case in proving Smith was a fraud.

The catalyst theory is based on the fact the artifacts were not what Joseph Smith claimed so I am not sure how your argument above is going to impact those that advocate it.
I have heard people like Jensen, Hauglid, Givens and even Bokovoy when he was a believer, who are now advocating the catalyst theory, directly address your objection here. Their response is not to agree he was a fraud, merely that he was wrong about what was on the source documents and in spite of that he produced important scripture.

[_Stem]

The catalyst theory is based on the fact the artifacts were not what Joseph Smith claimed so I am not sure how your argument above is going to impact those that advocate it.
I have heard people like Jensen, Hauglid, Givens and even Bokovoy when he was a believer, who are now advocating the catalyst theory, directly address your objection here. Their response is not to agree he was a fraud, merely that he was wrong about what was on the source documents and in spite of that he produced important scripture.

Yep.

If Joseph crept into Josephus or some other source and used that to expand on some point, or as T Givens apparently (I say "apparently" because I only heard it from RFM and haven't seen it myself) suggests, even if Joseph is just using others works its inspired. Shoot I'm going to have to back to RFM or get Givens book to remember that two-word phrase imaginative something.

[_Shulem]

The catalyst theory is based on the fact the artifacts were not what Joseph Smith claimed so I am not sure how your argument above is going to impact those that advocate it.
I have heard people like Jensen, Hauglid, Givens and even Bokovoy when he was a believer, who are now advocating the catalyst theory, directly address your objection here. Their response is not to agree he was a fraud, merely that he was wrong about what was on the source documents and in spite of that he produced important scripture.

Yes, the Catalyst Theory is based on the fact the artifacts were not what Smith claimed, but that's entirely a modern day concept, something that is adopted by Latter-day Saints beginning in the 20th century. The Catalyst Theory is not something the 19th century saints would have endorsed but would find it to be in direct opposition (apostasy) to the testimony and revelations claimed by Smith, many of which I have already cited.

Smith invoked the standard authoritative claim of being correct when he publicly asserted (and published in the Times and Seasons) he was stating "diamond truth":

1. Melchizedek Priesthood and in the name of Jesus Christ
2. 3,500 year old mummies (one of which was a king -- Part II is coming!)

When did I ever teach anything wrong from this stand? When was I ever confounded? I want to triumph in Israel before I depart hence and am no more seen. I never told you I was perfect; but there is no error in the revelations which I have taught

[_Shulem]

Their response is not to agree he was a fraud, merely that he was wrong about what was on the source documents

Joseph Smith learned what was on the source documents by direct influence of the Holy Spirit.



Remember the "Revelation to the twelve concerning the Times and Seasons" was given just prior to publishing the Book of Abraham whereby the revelations given though Joseph Smith about the Egyptian artifacts were nothing short of a "Verily thus saith the Lord!"

It wasn't Joseph Smith who was revealing the "diamond truth" or "solving mathematical problems" or "the errors of ages". No, it was the HOLY SPIRIT that was saying, "Behold the truth!"

What was that truth? The mummies were 3,500 years old and they were royal, one being a king. That was a declaration made by the prophet who got his information from none other than the Holy Spirit. The buck stops with the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost was wrong. The curse of the mummy got the better of him.

"Behold the mummies!"

[_Fence Sitter]

Shoot I'm going to have to back to RFM or get Givens book to remember that two-word phrase imaginative something.

Revelatory and prophetic imagination.

The technical term is pseudepigraphy but I like to call it "just making stuff up."