Do modern apostles no longer get visits from The Savior?

[Gadianton]

I have no problem believing he was arrogant enough to mean he'd literally seen Jesus.

Had he not given that testimony, you would still have said "that other apostles have a deep and knowledgeable witness of Christ".

Had you not been born Mormon, had you been born, say, Catholic, you'd be a shill for Catholicism and you'd never have given Mormonism 5 minutes of your time.

Whatever you grew up with and is comfortable for you must be the unmitigated eternal truth.

[sock puppet]

I have no problem believing he was arrogant enough to mean he'd literally seen Jesus.

Had he not given that testimony, you would still have said "that other apostles have a deep and knowledgeable witness of Christ".

Had you not been born Mormon, had you been born, say, Catholic, you'd be a shill for Catholicism and you'd never have given Mormonism 5 minutes of your time.

Whatever you grew up with and is comfortable for you must be the unmitigated eternal truth.

Yes, years and years of conditioning in "the faith of your fathers" into which you were born, and the need to keep feeling special as one of the relatively few of God's spirit children. Hard to take a step or two back, view that religion for what it is and is not, and give up your 'special' status.

[MG 2.0]

I have no problem believing he was arrogant enough to mean he'd literally seen Jesus.

Had he not given that testimony, you would still have said "that other apostles have a deep and knowledgeable witness of Christ".

Had you not been born Mormon, had you been born, say, Catholic, you'd be a shill for Catholicism and you'd never have given Mormonism 5 minutes of your time.

Whatever you grew up with and is comfortable for you must be the unmitigated eternal truth.

Yes, years and years of conditioning in "the faith of your fathers" into which you were born, and the need to keep feeling special as one of the relatively few of God's spirit children. Hard to take a step or two back, view that religion for what it is and is not, and give up your 'special' status.

If that’s the way you see it.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

I have no problem believing he was arrogant enough to mean he'd literally seen Jesus.

So someone that claims to have had a personal witness from Jesus Christ is “arrogant” by definition?

There isn’t any arrogance in the fact that you said that, is there?

Regards,
MG

[Gadianton]

So someone that claims to have had a personal witness from Jesus Christ is “arrogant” by definition?

Not by definition, but I'd be surprised to learn of anyone who claimed such a thing who isn't arrogant.

Bruce R. McConkie is in the top ranks of the most dogmatic church leaders of all time. He was arrogant long before lying about seeing Jesus. To publish a book called "Mormon Doctrine" without qualification as a Seventy, a book that was his own work and opinion, that was unpublished thereafter by the Church for supposing itself to speak on behalf of the Church officially, takes supreme arrogance.

It's not surprising that he took the opportunity to steal the thunder of other Church leaders by proclaiming what it is unlikely for anyone else to proclaim, thereby artificially propping himself up as one of the most noteworthy church authorities. Basically, what he did from the time he was a Seventy, was promote himself as the Prophet. To take on the role one would expect of the Prophet.

[Gadianton]

The portion you quoted very clearly is him saying that he has such faith in Jesus that actually seeing Jesus would not be necessary, so great is his belief.

I somewhat disagree. Bruce R. was a narcissist and he wasn't stupid. He worded what he said precisely to intone to the average dupe that he had literally seen Jesus, but while maintaining plausible deniability.

[bill4long]

I don't like to use the word "retarded" these days, but it's hard to resist.

[Marcus]

So someone that claims to have had a personal witness from Jesus Christ is “arrogant” by definition?

Not by definition, but I'd be surprised to learn of anyone who claimed such a thing who isn't arrogant.

Bruce R. McConkie is in the top ranks of the most dogmatic church leaders of all time. He was arrogant long before lying about seeing Jesus. To publish a book called "Mormon Doctrine" without qualification as a Seventy, a book that was his own work and opinion, that was unpublished thereafter by the Church for supposing itself to speak on behalf of the Church officially, takes supreme arrogance.

It's not surprising that he took the opportunity to steal the thunder of other Church leaders by proclaiming what it is unlikely for anyone else to proclaim, thereby artificially propping himself up as one of the most noteworthy church authorities. Basically, what he did from the time he was a Seventy, was promote himself as the Prophet. To take on the role one would expect of the Prophet.

After the fiasco w England, he seemed to have lost favor. I recall he went on a trip with a performance group after that, everyone was astonished that the trip warranted such a high profile chaperone. If I recall correctly, he didn't speak again at general conference or BYU after that, but I'm not sure of my memory.

[I Have Questions]

Bruce wasn’t against a spot of affinity fraud either…

In August 1960 McConkie, along with several other businessmen (including J. Thomas Fyans), formed the Memorial Estates Security Corporation (MESC), with a stated purpose of constructing memorial parks for deceased "loved ones". McConkie became its vice president. By September 1964, the company was failing, and in November, MESC filed for bankruptcy.[9] McConkie, along with fourteen other MESC officials were sued by 270 stockholders and bondholders of the company, accusing the company of prominently displaying LDS Church affiliation to imply endorsement in initial sales pitches. The suit also accused the company of failing to register as an investment company with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission as required by law.[10]

In a questionnaire sent to all investors, it was found that two thirds of all investors were elderly (ages 60–75), who had invested fifteen times as much as persons thirty years and under and four times as much as those in middle age. When asked why they contributed to the company, close to half mentioned trust in McConkie or other LDS Church leaders specifically. Further investigation showed that the company had failed to pay dividends long before its collapse, and failed to inform investors of its insolvency. The case was settled out of court on April 25, 1969, three days before going before a jury trial.[10]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_R._McConkie

[Philo Sofee]

Bruce wasn’t against a spot of affinity fraud either…

In August 1960 McConkie, along with several other businessmen (including J. Thomas Fyans), formed the Memorial Estates Security Corporation (MESC), with a stated purpose of constructing memorial parks for deceased "loved ones". McConkie became its vice president. By September 1964, the company was failing, and in November, MESC filed for bankruptcy.[9] McConkie, along with fourteen other MESC officials were sued by 270 stockholders and bondholders of the company, accusing the company of prominently displaying LDS Church affiliation to imply endorsement in initial sales pitches. The suit also accused the company of failing to register as an investment company with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission as required by law.[10]

In a questionnaire sent to all investors, it was found that two thirds of all investors were elderly (ages 60–75), who had invested fifteen times as much as persons thirty years and under and four times as much as those in middle age. When asked why they contributed to the company, close to half mentioned trust in McConkie or other LDS Church leaders specifically. Further investigation showed that the company had failed to pay dividends long before its collapse, and failed to inform investors of its insolvency. The case was settled out of court on April 25, 1969, three days before going before a jury trial.[10]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_R._McConkie

The Mormon leadership Gospel of prosperity philosophy: "Rip off the members through trusted priesthood clout."