Although when Joseph apparently rebelled against the practice of polygamy, ... he was not permitted to exercise his free agency. Perhaps, in that case, his god was unable to "set a plan in place by which everything will be made right", and therefore Joseph had to be threatened until he reluctantly complied. I have to admit to a bit of skepticism.
I’m struggling to match MG’s idea that God allows His prophets to make wrong decisions that affect the whole church for generations, with the Church teaching that God will never allow His prophets to lead the Church astray. Either MG is talking rubbish, or the Church is. The Church and MG cannot both be correct as their statements are mutually exclusive of each other. They can of course both be wrong.
It is worth noting that the Church asserts that you can always trust the living prophet. I think the SEC discovered that no, you can’t.
Choose one of the following according to immediate apologetic needs:
God allows His prophets to make wrong decisions that affect the whole church for generations
God will never allow His prophets to lead the Church astray
Whichever you choose, ignore, deny, or at least downplay the other.
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I didn’t need to. He did some footwork. More than you did. Yes, God works with mankind according to their individual understanding, development, time and place, etc. It is an evolutionary process . God IS responsible. God is not a “failure” for being/acting as the ultimate guidance counselor to help His individual children progress as independent beings according to their own nature and being. I taught school for many years. Each child was unique in some way all the way from special needs to emotionally challenged to gifted and talented, etc. Each student progressed in their own fashion along the path of discovery and knowledge. Some faster than others. Different, not better.
As we compare and contrast ourselves with others in our current time and place we ought to be very careful about judging others that were different in some/many ways than ourselves. As far as “racist policy” I would say that God teaches us, He doesn’t force us or even give us the gift of knowledge if He can see…from His perspective…(who we are, what our place in time is, how revelation impacts free agency, etc.)…that either we are not ready or it’s not the right time and place. I’m willing to place that judgement in the hands of an all knowledgeable Being that knows the end from the beginning and has set a plan in place by which everything will be made right.
Jesus’s Atonement. It all comes down to an all powerful God and His Son Jesus Christ. And that’s where faith comes into the picture.
Regards,
MG
Got it, you’re going with option 2, that God failed to stop the racist policy that the Church operated for a hundred years, because blah blah blah guidance counsellor blah blah blah AND you are going with option 2, that God wanted the racist policy that the Church operated for a hundred years, because blah blah blah black people weren’t ready for the priesthood blah blah blah black people were like special needs children blah blah blah not able to progress as quickly as others blah blah blah.
What a bunch of racist claptrap you’ve just spewed over the board.
It’s the blah blah blah that makes the difference between black and white fundamentalist thinking and a more expansive view of reality. Over time I have come to the realization that you are in a locked box of understanding and are not able to think outside the box.
You literally cannot do it. This limits our conversation to a very restricted and narrow vision of possibilities.
My sincere apologies to all investigators and truth-seekers for the actions of our self-appointed missionary, Fibber MG. His brazen depravity and blatant dishonesty are a daily source of profound shock and disappointment. He has earned, hands down, the title of the worst missionary of all time.
MG wrote:As far as “racist policy” I would say that God teaches us, He doesn’t force us or even give us the gift of knowledge if He can see…from His perspective…(who we are, what our place in time is, how revelation impacts free agency, etc.)…that either we are not ready or it’s not the right time and place. I’m willing to place that judgement in the hands of an all knowledgeable Being that knows the end from the beginning and has set a plan in place by which everything will be made right.
Although when Joseph apparently rebelled against the practice of polygamy, ... he was not permitted to exercise his free agency. Perhaps, in that case, his god was unable to "set a plan in place by which everything will be made right", and therefore Joseph had to be threatened until he reluctantly complied. I have to admit to a bit of skepticism.
Joseph indeed experienced tests of endurance and obedience as Abraham and other prophets did. I think that many of us experience an ‘Abrahamic Test’ of one kind or another. We have to make some very hard choices and God takes us right to the very limit…and we then choose.
That’s unkind and not conducive to peacemaking. Why are you failing to sustain your Prophet’s birthday counsel?
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
Although when Joseph apparently rebelled against the practice of polygamy, ... he was not permitted to exercise his free agency. Perhaps, in that case, his god was unable to "set a plan in place by which everything will be made right", and therefore Joseph had to be threatened until he reluctantly complied. I have to admit to a bit of skepticism.
I’m struggling to match MG’s idea that God allows His prophets to make wrong decisions that affect the whole church for generations, with the Church teaching that God will never allow His prophets to lead the Church astray. Either MG is talking rubbish, or the Church is. The Church and MG cannot both be correct as their statements are mutually exclusive of each other. They can of course both be wrong.
It is worth noting that the Church asserts that you can always trust the living prophet. I think the SEC discovered that no, you can’t.
It is a fine balance between God allowing His children, including prophets, to make mistakes and stepping in to make course corrections when needed/necessary. Yes, others are impacted and sometimes hurt or experience hardship as a result. But in a laboratory set up for experience one might expect that. We are in a complex laboratory of sorts where experiments (even theological and cultural explorations) some times fail and sometimes bring forth greater light and knowledge.
Along the way, I believe, God gently nudges us and sometimes hits us with a brick to help us make course corrections.
If we will.
Often, however, we rebel and say “screw this”. That happens as people leave the church for various reasons. One of those being that the church “demands too much from me”.
I’m struggling to match MG’s idea that God allows His prophets to make wrong decisions that affect the whole church for generations, with the Church teaching that God will never allow His prophets to lead the Church astray. Either MG is talking rubbish, or the Church is. The Church and MG cannot both be correct as their statements are mutually exclusive of each other. They can of course both be wrong.
It is worth noting that the Church asserts that you can always trust the living prophet. I think the SEC discovered that no, you can’t.
It is a fine balance between God allowing His children, including prophets, to make mistakes and stepping in to make course corrections when needed/necessary. Yes, others are impacted and sometimes hurt or experience hardship as a result. But in a laboratory set up for experience one might expect that. We are in a complex laboratory of sorts where experiments (even theological and cultural explorations) some times fail and sometimes bring forth greater light and knowledge.
Along the way, I believe, God gently nudges us and sometimes hits us with a brick to help us make course corrections.
If we will.
Often, however, we rebel and say “screw this”. That happens as people leave the church for various reasons. One of those being that the church “demands too much from me”.
Regards ,
MG
You're being deliberately evasive. We aren’t talking about “us”. We aren’t talking about “His children”. We are talking, specifically, about His Prophet. Now redo your answer on that basis.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
It is a fine balance between God allowing His children, including prophets, to make mistakes and stepping in to make course corrections when needed/necessary. Yes, others are impacted and sometimes hurt or experience hardship as a result. But in a laboratory set up for experience one might expect that. We are in a complex laboratory of sorts where experiments (even theological and cultural explorations) some times fail and sometimes bring forth greater light and knowledge.
Along the way, I believe, God gently nudges us and sometimes hits us with a brick to help us make course corrections.
If we will.
Often, however, we rebel and say “screw this”. That happens as people leave the church for various reasons. One of those being that the church “demands too much from me”.
Regards ,
MG
You're being deliberately evasive. We aren’t talking about “us”. We aren’t talking about “His children”. We are talking, specifically, about His Prophet. Now redo your answer on that basis.
Silly man. You are doing exactly what I’ve described. You literally cannot think outside of a self imposed/constructed box of your own making. You then DEMAND that others meet you on your terms inside your restrictive and suffocating box of limited thinking and exploration.
I don’t HAVE to meet you inside your box and meet your personal demands. Come out! Smell the roses! The world is bigger and brighter…and more complex…than you can even imagine. And me, for that matter.
You're being deliberately evasive. We aren’t talking about “us”. We aren’t talking about “His children”. We are talking, specifically, about His Prophet. Now redo your answer on that basis.
Silly man. You are doing exactly what I’ve described. You literally cannot think outside of a self imposed/constructed box of your own making. You then DEMAND that others meet you on your terms inside your restrictive and suffocating box of limited thinking and exploration.
I don’t HAVE to meet you inside your box and meet your personal demands. Come out! Smell the roses! The world is bigger and brighter…and more complex…than you can even imagine. And me, for that matter.
Regards,
MG
I didn’t think you would.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
