John Dehlin joins Mormonism LIVE to give the other side

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Sometimes when I think about the Mormon church, as I did today when I saw a pair of missionaries walking along a highway here, I’m struck by the certain bureaucratic structures and the power they wield to instill in people the failure to think, to blindly follow orders, and to rely on clichés. They create a class of zombies who refuse to look at the world from another person's perspective who’re able to create massive difficulties for themselves and others.

You can be a part of a sex cult, or part of a political party ‘protecting ours’ all the while allow catastrophic, institutional or systemic violence to happen without any single person feeling deeply malicious or responsible. Perhaps you give in-group people a little power, even the veneer of a little power, and you can get them to agree to almost anything. Hell, they’ll die for it if they believe they’re a part of something special.

Anyway. Mormon prophets screwed kids.

[Limnor]

I didn't learn about Nancy Rigdon from an anti site, I learned about it from my uber TBM dad. He told me about it when I was in high school. What got him excited was the "powerful rebuke" the Lord administered to her through the prophet for disobeying.

This is incredible to me. What can people do when evidence of wrongdoing becomes evidence of godly authority?

[Marcus]

...It's also worth repeating that there are some folks that focus or concentrate on information that has come to us from third hand sources that are biased and incomplete in their representation of the whole person of Joseph Smith. Some of those folks are represented on this very board...

This is an example of the insidious nature of MG's trolling, which I see as a byproduct of, as Doc put it, the ability of the lds church to "create a class of zombies who refuse to look at the world from another person's perspective who’re able to create massive difficulties for themselves and others."

MG inevitably collapses his issues to a Mormons-good vs. nonmormons-bad discriminatory assumption, but he's tries to disguise his concerns ("information that has come to us"). The only "us" who sees the data he disagrees with as being biased is himself. He also carefully qualifies his concern by saying "Some of those folks are represented on this very board" when no one else has expressed that concern, in order to hide his stereotyping of the board as a whole.

His stereotyping and consequent discrimination start out much milder than Hounds' frothingly outrageous spewings, but it is still bigotry, and it inevitably (and repetitively) culminates in a full on tantrum where all here become his named enemies.

Mentalgymnast comes here because he sees us as a group of people that his religious bigotry allows him to define as inferior to himself. The truly sick part is that he views his upbringing as also granting him the right to discriminate, insult, and degrade, and he comes here for the opportunity, under the guise of taking advantage of our 'free speech.'

Luckily most of us here find him more amusing than harmful, but what does it say about a religion that contributes significantly to creating people who amuse themselves in this manner?

[MG 2.0]

...It's also worth repeating that there are some folks that focus or concentrate on information that has come to us from third hand sources that are biased and incomplete in their representation of the whole person of Joseph Smith. Some of those folks are represented on this very board...

This is an example of the insidious nature of MG's trolling, which I see as a byproduct of, as Doc put it, the ability of the lds church to "create a class of zombies who refuse to look at the world from another person's perspective who’re able to create massive difficulties for themselves and others."

MG inevitably collapses his issues to a Mormons-good vs. nonmormons-bad discriminatory assumption, but he's tries to disguise his concerns ("information that has come to us"). The only "us" who sees the data he disagrees with as being biased is himself. He also carefully qualifies his concern by saying "Some of those folks are represented on this very board" when no one else has expressed that concern, in order to hide his stereotyping of the board as a whole.

His stereotyping and consequent discrimination start out much milder than Hounds' frothingly outrageous spewings, but it is still bigotry, and it inevitably (and repetitively) culminates in a full on tantrum where all here become his named enemies.

Mentalgymnast comes here because he sees us as a group of people that his religious bigotry allows him to define as inferior to himself. The truly sick part is that he views his upbringing as also granting him the right to discriminate, insult, and degrade, and he comes here for the opportunity, under the guise of taking advantage of our 'free speech.'

Luckily most of us here find him more amusing than harmful, but what does it say about a religion that contributes significantly to creating people who amuse themselves in this manner?

Most of what you said is either untrue or skewed. I’m not here to “amuse myself”. I am here to offer a counterpoint to the secular humanist worldview and to present what I believe to be reasons to believe and have faith in God…rather than taking the position that we’re on our own in this world and when we die that’s it. That there is more. That we are presently a ‘work in process’ moving in and through/along an eternal path which can be joyful and productive as we develop relationship with our Father in Heaven and His Son, Jesus Christ.

How you and others respond is up to you. I don’t expect to be treated kindly although I do appreciate the civility/tolerance and friendly interactions with some.

Of course I will point out where we are running in opposition with each other. That really can’t be helped when discussing things of import such as ‘truth’, ‘salvation’, ‘Gods’, and the like. There will be friction between Latter-day Saints and other Christians. That happens here also, although I try to point out that from my perspective we are brothers and sisters in Christ.

There are some here who will not let bygones be bygones as they look at what they to believe past hurts. That will not change by the looks of it. So in the meantime I wade through all that ‘stuff’ as I present my views and my beliefs in the Restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

As I have returned for another ‘sprint’ along the track until exiting (for my own safety and sanity ) I have no illusions that I will be misinterpreted in my motives and thought of as an ‘amusing troll’. I feel bad that I have fed into ‘the drama’ in the past.

I’m human.

Again, I think than running counterpoint to show that there is more than one way to view things…the critic’s way…is useful and productive. Especially for those dropping in to see what Discuss Mormonism is all about. It shouldn’t always be a one way street.

I expect traffic cops…with prejudice…along the way.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

...I am here to offer a counterpoint to the secular humanist worldview and to present what I believe to be reasons to believe and have faith in God…rather than taking the position that we’re on our own in this world and when we die that’s it. That there is more. That we are presently a ‘work in process’ moving in and through/along an eternal path which can be joyful and productive as we develop relationship with our Father in Heaven and His Son, Jesus Christ...

Someone should explain to you that calling people names, stereotyping them as a group, repeatedly listing what you despise in them, breaking rules over and over and over and using every logical fallacy possible while stifling legitimate discussions are bad things to do if you're pretending to do missionary work.

Seriously, though, not buying it. Your behavior and reputation precede you and you've posted this way for decades. "Joyful" and "productive" are descriptions that are the antithesis of your your participation here.

[MG 2.0]

...I am here to offer a counterpoint to the secular humanist worldview and to present what I believe to be reasons to believe and have faith in God…rather than taking the position that we’re on our own in this world and when we die that’s it. That there is more. That we are presently a ‘work in process’ moving in and through/along an eternal path which can be joyful and productive as we develop relationship with our Father in Heaven and His Son, Jesus Christ...

Someone should explain to you that calling people names, stereotyping them as a group, repeatedly listing what you despise in them, breaking rules over and over and over and using every logical fallacy possible while stifling legitimte discussions are bad things to do if you're pretending to do missionary work.

blah blah blah (sorry…this gets old)

Seriously, though, not buying it.

I wouldn’t expect that you would.

Your behavior and reputation precede you and you've posted this way for decades. "Joyful" and "productive" are descriptions that are the antithesis of your your participation here.

As I’ve said before, I would expect that from your perspective there are going to be insurmountable frictions that cannot be overcome. I know they’re there, but I just move forward and act in good faith as you continue to ‘do you’.

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

I didn't learn about Nancy Rigdon from an anti site, I learned about it from my uber TBM dad. He told me about it when I was in high school. What got him excited was the "powerful rebuke" the Lord administered to her through the prophet for disobeying.

This is incredible to me. What can people do when evidence of wrongdoing becomes evidence of godly authority?

I think it’s worth remembering that the Church was, and still is, a patriarchy, and a lot of Uber Male Mormons take that into the home.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I didn't learn about Nancy Rigdon from an anti site, I learned about it from my uber TBM dad. He told me about it when I was in high school. What got him excited was the "powerful rebuke" the Lord administered to her through the prophet for disobeying.

This is incredible to me. What can people do when evidence of wrongdoing becomes evidence of godly authority?

Growing up I recall at least two instances of men excoriating the memory and reputation of Emma Smith for her unwillingness to submit to Joseph Smith over polygamy. I mean, c'mon! Imagine if your wife gained a following of cult members and she received a 'revelation' that allowed her to marry other men, ostensibly because it's 'god's will', but it allows her to get busy with them. And to add insult to injury, history judges you as this asshole who was difficult and rebellious because you weren't thrilled with the idea of your wife having sex with other men.

Evil is banal as “F”.

[MG 2.0]

This is incredible to me. What can people do when evidence of wrongdoing becomes evidence of godly authority?

I think it’s worth remembering that the Church was, and still is, a patriarchy...

It is. But women play an important part. In the home and at church each week.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

I think it’s worth remembering that the Church was, and still is, a patriarchy...

It is. But women play an important part. In the home and at church each week.

Regards,
MG

The patriarchy speaks. As to IHQ's point: QED .