God can write straight with crooked lines.

[Philo Sofee]

In these cases it’s probably best to go back to the original Greek for further explanation. The English word “fear” is used in different contexts, but in Greek, the gospel removes phobos tied to punishment, but preserves eulabeia—reverent recognition that life is given, not controlled.

This is the post I meant to respond to showing two Greek examples.....Lol!

[Limnor]

I hope you don’t mind me pointing out a couple examples that help visualize your interesting point…

I don’t mind at all. In fact your addition is very helpful, thank you.

[I Have Questions]

However, for the big "prize" in Mormonism, the one we are supposed to be striving for, and for which we make all sorts of "payments", bets - as far as I know, nobody has ever come back to tell us about it. We are just supposed to have "faith" in something for which there is no evidence of the sort that make people put their life savings on a throw of the dice, because even the person who loses such a gamble can see that some entity - person or "the house" - actually gets the money.

In Mormonism you never really get to see the jackpot. No one returns with receipts but the payments are made in advance. It looks like trust without settlement. I don’t think that reduces to “all faith involves risk,” there’s just no way to tell trust from self-deception.

One of the reasons cited by Nelson for the decades long nefarious shell company scam that the Church operated to avoid disclosing to the SEC and Membership just how much wealth they had accumulated, was that the First Presidency did not trust the membership to continue to pay tithing if the full extent of hoard were known.

[Dr. Sunstoned]

[One of the reasons cited by Nelson for the decades long nefarious shell company scam that the Church operated to avoid disclosing to the SEC and Membership just how much wealth they had accumulated, was that the First Presidency did not trust the membership to continue to pay tithing if the full extent of hoard were known.

Nelson's statement says much about the motivation that drives the organization.

[bill4long]

In Mormonism you never really get to see the jackpot. No one returns with receipts but the payments are made in advance. It looks like trust without settlement. I don’t think that reduces to “all faith involves risk,” there’s just no way to tell trust from self-deception.

One of the reasons cited by Nelson for the decades long nefarious shell company scam that the Church operated to avoid disclosing to the SEC and Membership just how much wealth they had accumulated, was that the First Presidency did not trust the membership to continue to pay tithing if the full extent of hoard were known.

As RFM said, the LDS church makes liars out of us all. Or something like that.

[MG 2.0]

That is where faith comes into the picture. Some got it, and some don't.

The problem with "faith" is that it's non-falsifiable, contradictory among believers, and has no demonstrable worth as evidence beyond getting you through your life, or getting you through the night when things get really challenging, as John Lennon sang.

I'm not against it at all, but I think ones should be clear about what it really is: it cannot be demonstrable as anything more than a psychological trick to help you sleep at night. And one should never impose it on others by force or coercion, or make collective/government policy based on it.

Not much to quibble with here except the "psychological trick to help you sleep at night" bit.

There's more to it than that.

If that's all there was to it, it wouldn't be worth the time and sacrifice to express alligience and faith to it.

Regards
MG

[Morley]

Not much to quibble with here except the "psychological trick to help you sleep at night" bit.

There's more to it than that.

If that's all there was to it, it wouldn't be worth the time and sacrifice to express alligience and faith to it.

MG, I’m interested in the part that I bolded above. What have you sacrificed in expressing allegiance to your faith?

[bill4long]

The problem with "faith" is that it's non-falsifiable, contradictory among believers, and has no demonstrable worth as evidence beyond getting you through your life, or getting you through the night when things get really challenging, as John Lennon sang.

I'm not against it at all, but I think ones should be clear about what it really is: it cannot be demonstrable as anything more than a psychological trick to help you sleep at night. And one should never impose it on others by force or coercion, or make collective/government policy based on it.

Not much to quibble with here except the "psychological trick to help you sleep at night" bit.

There's more to it than that.

If that's all there was to it, it wouldn't be worth the time and sacrifice to express alligience and faith to it.

Regards
MG

I was being hyperbolic. I think I replied to Limnor on this.

[MG 2.0]

Not much to quibble with here except the "psychological trick to help you sleep at night" bit.

There's more to it than that.

If that's all there was to it, it wouldn't be worth the time and sacrifice to express alligience and faith to it.

MG, I’m interested in the part that I bolded above. What have you sacrificed in expressing allegiance to your faith?

Some of the usual things that critics are wont to complain about and bring up.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

As RFM said, the LDS church makes liars out of us all. Or something like that.

Fount of wisdom, that one.

My experience, at least in a few instances, is the opposite. Leaving the church, for some, seems to give permission to be a bit careless with the truth.

When you can create your own moral compass without any consequence and/or input from a 'sky daddy', it can't help but make SOME difference in the way one views the world and discerning those things that are 'right' and 'wrong'.

Regards,
MG