Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience

[tapirrider]

If you have a copy of or access to From Heart to Heart: An Autobiography, it would helpful to know what the book says about the incident.

He wrote this in the preface of his 1979 autobiography:
“The final nudge came as I was a passenger in a small airplane plummeting earthward with one of its two engines exploded. I realized then that although both the spiritual and material needs for my family had been provided, I had not left for them a reasonable recapitulation of my life that they could review. The safe emergency landing of that disabled aircraft provided me with the chance I needed.”
http://www.truthwillprevail.xyz/2018/01 ... ell-m.html

[tapirrider]

I found this in the Civil Aeronautics Board Reports. "Second incidence occurred Nov. 11, 1976 involving Piper PA 31 N74985. Pilot experienced rough engine on scheduled flight between Salt Lake City and St. George. 3 passengers on board. Engine was feathered and precautionary landing made at Delta, Utah, per instructions in company manual. Investigation revealed cylinder base studs sheered. As result of occurrence Sky West change maintenance procedures by checking torque studs at each 100 hour inspection. No damage to aircraft. No injuries to crew or passengers." Either the date is wrong in the report (the inauguration really was on Nov. 12) or President Nelson flew in the day before but mentions Nov. 12 because that was the big event. Neither publications nor memories are always perfect. They probably didn't fly this route every single day. Note there were only 3 passengers, so there wasn't high demand, nor were there a lot of other people to confirm the event. Remember President Nelson is 96 and has outlived a lot of people. At a minimum, this lends a lot of credibility to President Nelson's story. Here is the link to the report if anyone would like to verify this plane incident for themselves. https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/ ... dents+1976

Details of the Service Difficulty Report can be seen by using this link http://aviationdb.net/aviationdb/SdrQuery#SUBMIT

For parameters, just use the aircraft registration 74985, run the query, then select details from the report date of 1977-01-20

[Gabriel]

I found this in the Civil Aeronautics Board Reports. "Second incidence occurred Nov. 11, 1976 involving Piper PA 31 N74985. Pilot experienced rough engine on scheduled flight between Salt Lake City and St. George. 3 passengers on board. Engine was feathered and precautionary landing made at Delta, Utah, per instructions in company manual. Investigation revealed cylinder base studs sheered. As result of occurrence Sky West change maintenance procedures by checking torque studs at each 100 hour inspection. No damage to aircraft. No injuries to crew or passengers." Either the date is wrong in the report (the inauguration really was on Nov. 12) or President Nelson flew in the day before but mentions Nov. 12 because that was the big event. Neither publications nor memories are always perfect. They probably didn't fly this route every single day. Note there were only 3 passengers, so there wasn't high demand, nor were there a lot of other people to confirm the event. Remember President Nelson is 96 and has outlived a lot of people. At a minimum, this lends a lot of credibility to President Nelson's story. Here is the link to the report if anyone would like to verify this plane incident for themselves. https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/ ... dents+1976

Details of the Service Difficulty Report can be seen by using this link http://aviationdb.net/aviationdb/SdrQuery#SUBMIT

For parameters, just use the aircraft registration 74985, run the query, then select details from the report date of 1977-01-20

I copied and am pasting the Service Difficulty Report below. The TLDR is that it's all greek to me. The Date of Occurrence was left blank. Also, the report states that the Air Carrier Name is "Unknown". Furthermore, the report information is in two columns and I'm unable to divide them up in this posting. Maybe, DrW can make heads or tails of this:


Sdr Details

Date Of Report 1977-01-20 Operator Control Number Z197702000053
Date Of Occurrence Aircraft Registration 74985
Aircraft Manufacturer PIPER Aircraft Group Code PA31
Aircraft Manufacturer Model PA31350 Aircraft Make Model Sequence 7103110
Air Carrier Name Unknown Air Carrier Operation Code
Operation Type Stage Of Operation CRUISE
Severity Factor OVER 24 MO Air Transport Association Code Reciprocating Engine Power Section
Precautionary Procedures UNSCHED LANDING Nature Of Condition MULTIPLE FAILURE, VIBRATION/BUFFET
Remarks
STUDS BROKEN NO 2 CYL SEPARATED CASE.EXTREME INTERNAL DAMAGE TO ENG

Segment ENGINE Descriptive Name Of Part STUDS
Defective Location On Aircraft NO2 CYL Failed Part Condition BROKEN
Part Total Time 3,861 Part Total Time Since Overhaul 1,557
Component Manufacturer Component Manufacturer Model
Component Manufacturer Number Manufacturer Part Number 6394181
Ata Code

Aircraft Region Responsible SOUTHERN Aircraft Manufacturer Number 317405142
Aircraft Weight Class UNDER 12501 LBS Aircraft Wing Type MONPLANE-LOW WING
Aircraft Power Class Code 7 Number Of Engines 2
Design Characteristic Code 3O Landing Gear Code
Aircraft Type Certificate A20SO

Engine Group Code O540 Engine Manufacturer LYC
Engine Manufacturer Model TIO540J2BD Engine Make Model Sequence 41533
Region Responsible For Engine EASTERN Engine Power Class Code 3
Engine Type Code O Engine Type Certificate E14EA

Propeller Group Code Propeller Manufacturer
Propeller Manufacturer Model Propeller Region Responsible
Propeller Manufacturer Number Propeller Power Code
Propeller Type Code Propeller Type Certificate

Unique Sequential Number 00053 Submitter CARRIER PART 135
Report Status ORIG CLSD Alert
Original Report Microfilm Roll DT Original Report Microfilm Fram 0317
Region EASTERN Report District Office SALT LAKE CITY UT FSDO

[honorentheos]

Nice to see the thread remains the circle jerk it's always been as other evidence gets added. Funny how it works out with people who once argued the event didn't happen are now merrily weighing in with satisfaction on how clearly the exaggerated story we always knew Nelson was telling just based on the variety of published accounts is evident of Nelson's lack of integrity or honesty.

Never change, y'all. Never change.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

This is what feathering a prop on a twin engine looks like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHhg3j-AMxk

Ffwd to 7 minutes and 10:30 for the more or less relevant parts. Note there was no death spiral when one engine is cut, and also note how an experienced pilot basically just smoothly compensates for an in-air situation.

I’m not sure what Honor is getting at, but R,MN’s story, as told from the pulpit by himself and his wife, and as published either in a magazine or via video, is an out and out lie. Again, we’re talking about the details of his fanciful story and whether or not they could’ve happened. They couldn’t, and they didn’t.

- Doc

[Dr Moore]

Nice to see the thread remains the circle jerk it's always been as other evidence gets added. Funny how it works out with people who once argued the event didn't happen are now merrily weighing in with satisfaction on how clearly the exaggerated story we always knew Nelson was telling just based on the variety of published accounts is evident of Nelson's lack of integrity or honesty.

Never change, y'all. Never change.

I would say most folks here assumed some type of event happened, just not nearly of the type or severity described by Nelson in numerous accounts. Now we have a report with details that almost certainly identify the precise flight and confirm the very minor, unremarkable events involved.

[tapirrider]

Funny how it works out with people who once argued the event didn't happen are now merrily weighing in with satisfaction on how clearly the exaggerated story we always knew Nelson was telling just based on the variety of published accounts is evident of Nelson's lack of integrity or honesty.

Never change, y'all. Never change.

No, this is not funny at all. And it clearly did not happen, not the way Nelson has claimed. I have stated all along that no record will be found of the event as Nelson claimed. Had there been an engine explosion, a fire and an emergency landing in a field, an FAA report of that would be found. Now what has been found here is a service difficulty report, which is quite a different thing than a safety incident report of what Nelson claimed happened. The SDR is made by maintenance for maintenance. And along with that SDR is the link to the Civil Aeronautics Board Reports, Volume 73, Economic Cases of the Civil Aeronautics Board, March to June 1977. The link shows letters written by the FAA which contain information about this incident, further showing the truth, that Nelson has embellished a minor matter into some kind of a full blown miracle involving an engine explosion (never happened), an uncontrollable fire (didn't happen), a spiral dive leading to death (didn't happen) and an emergency landing in a field (didn't happen).

Here are the text of the letters, found on pages 1089-1090:

Civil Aeronautics Board
Washington, D.C.
March 28, 1977

Mr. George D. Bowsell
Chief, General Aviation Operations
Branch, AFS-820
General Aviation Division
Federal Aviation Administration
Washington, D.C. 20590

Dear Mr. Boswell:

Hughes Airwest has been granted authority to suspend service at Cedar City, Utah, and
Page, Arizona, contingent upon the provision of a specified minimum level of service by
Sky West Aviation, a commuter carrier based in St. George, Utah. (Airwest's suspension
has been stayed pending Board action on petitions for reconsideration.) This supension
was granted after the receipt of a favorable safety and compliance report from your office.
(See our letter of December 15, 1976, and your replies of January 11 and 17, 1977.)
In a document filed with the Board on March 14, 1977, one of the parties to our pro-
ceeding has alleged that Sky West has "experienced three emergency landings in the last
three months." As the Board is currently considering petitions to reconsider our earlier
action, we would appreciate a written update of the safety and compliance evaluation of
Sky West Aviation which you furnished in the above-referenced letters. As this is a formal
hearing case, a prompt reply would be greatly appreciated. A copy of this letter and your
reply will be placed in Dockets 27097 and 27908.
Sincerely,
Gary J. Edles
Associate General Counsel
Routes Division


Department of Transportation
Federal Aviation Administration
Washington, D.C.
April 1, 1977

Mr. Gary Edles
Associate General Counsel
Routes Division
Civil Aeronautics Board
Washington, D.C. 20428

Dear Mr. Edles:

As you requested in your letter of March 28, enclosed in the written update on Sky West
Aviation's safety and compliance summary.
We still find no reason for the Civil Aeronautics Board to act unfavorably on the
operator's request.
Sincerely,
George D. Bowsell

George D. Boswell, Chief
General Aviation Operations Branch, AFS-280
General Aviation Division
Enclosure


FAA, Rocky Mountain Region
Flight Standards Division, APM-200
March 30, 1977

Attention: Billy L. Abram
Per telephone conversation this date this is additional information on safety and com-
pliance record summary of Sky West Airlines which were provided to you Jan. 6, 1977. Sky
West Airlines has had 3 engine failures from Oct. 17, 1976 through Nov. 24, 1976. First
incident involved Cessna 210 N30796 on Oct. 17, 1976. Ferry flight conducted under part
91. Investigation revealed exhaust valve failure. Total time on engine 1270 hours. No in-
juries to pilot. No damage to aircraft. Second incident occurred Nov. 11, 1976 involving
Piper PA 31 N74985. Pilot experienced rough engine on scheduled flight between Salt
Lake City and St. George. 3 passengers on board. Engine was feathered and precautionary
landing made at Delta, Utah, per instructions in company manual. Investigations revealed
cylinder base studs sheered. As result of occurrence Sky West changed maintenance pro-
cedures by checking torque studs at each 100 hour inspection. No damage to aircraft. No
injuries to crew or passengers. Third incident occurred on Nov. 24, 1976 involving Cessna
206 N72161. Ferry flight. No passengers or cargo on board. After takeoff from St. George,
Utah, pilot heard loud bang and engine stopped. Made emergency landing one mile south
of St. George. No injuries to crew or damage to aircraft. Investigation revealed failure of
crankshaft counter weight retaining pin. After third incident Salt Lake City Gado made
an indepth investigation of engine failures and maintenance practices of airline. Engine
failures not related even though they occurred in short timeframe. No deficiencies found
in maintenance practices of carrier. After second incident a Lycoming service represen-
tative schooled all pilots on proper operation of Lycoming engines. Found that company
was operating engines in accordance with Lycoming's recommendations. All occurrences
were reported on SDR's. No violations filed as result of investigations.

James H. Stevenson
ARM-250, 3021502


Now since I have been referred to as " people who once argued the event didn't happen are now merrily weighing", it seems appropriate to point out that the event Nelson has claimed for all these years didn't happen. What this is most comparable to is Paul H. Dunn's nonsense. While it is true that Dunn played baseball, he never played major league baseball with the St. Louis Cardinals. And it is true that Dunn served in WWII, but he never held his best friend in his arms as he died during the battle on Okinawa. Such is the same here with Nelson. And as I said, this is not funny. Especially considering that Nelson was one of the apostles who censured Dunn in 1991 but Nelson then turned around and promoted his own embellished tale in the spring General Conference of 1992 with this version that never happened:

"I remember vividly an experience I had as a passenger in a small two-propeller airplane. One of its engines suddenly burst open and caught on fire. The propeller of the flaming engine was starkly stilled. As we plummeted in a steep spiral dive toward the earth, I expected to die. Some of the passengers screamed in hysterical panic. Miraculously, the precipitous dive extinguished the flames. Then, by starting up the other engine, the pilot was able to stabilize the plane and bring us down safely."
https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... h?lang=eng

[Everybody Wang Chung]

[Lem]

Funny how it works out with people who once argued the event didn't happen are now merrily weighing in with satisfaction on how clearly the exaggerated story we always knew Nelson was telling just based on the variety of published accounts is evident of Nelson's lack of integrity or honesty.

Never change, y'all. Never change.

No, this is not funny at all. And it clearly did not happen, not the way Nelson has claimed. I have stated all along that no record will be found of the event as Nelson claimed. Had there been an engine explosion, a fire and an emergency landing in a field, an FAA report of that would be found. Now what has been found here is a service difficulty report, which is quite a different thing than a safety incident report of what Nelson claimed happened. The SDR is made by maintenance for maintenance. And along with that SDR is the link to the Civil Aeronautics Board Reports, Volume 73, Economic Cases of the Civil Aeronautics Board, March to June 1977. The link shows letters written by the FAA which contain information about this incident, further showing the truth, that Nelson has embellished a minor matter into some kind of a full blown miracle involving an engine explosion (never happened), an uncontrollable fire (didn't happen), a spiral dive leading to death (didn't happen) and an emergency landing in a field (didn't happen).

<SNIP>

Now since I have been referred to as " people who once argued the event didn't happen are now merrily weighing", it seems appropriate to point out that the event Nelson has claimed for all these years didn't happen. What this is most comparable to is Paul H. Dunn's nonsense. While it is true that Dunn played baseball, he never played major league baseball with the St. Louis Cardinals. And it is true that Dunn served in WWII, but he never held his best friend in his arms as he died during the battle on Okinawa. Such is the same here with Nelson. And as I said, this is not funny. Especially considering that Nelson was one of the apostles who censured Dunn in 1991 but Nelson then turned around and promoted his own embellished tale in the spring General Conference of 1992 with this version that never happened:

"I remember vividly an experience I had as a passenger in a small two-propeller airplane. One of its engines suddenly burst open and caught on fire. The propeller of the flaming engine was starkly stilled. As we plummeted in a steep spiral dive toward the earth, I expected to die. Some of the passengers screamed in hysterical panic. Miraculously, the precipitous dive extinguished the flames. Then, by starting up the other engine, the pilot was able to stabilize the plane and bring us down safely."
https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... h?lang=eng

Excellent points, especially the comparison to Dunn's 'exaggerations.'

Now since I have been referred to as " people who once argued the event didn't happen are now merrily weighing", it seems appropriate to point out that the event Nelson has claimed for all these years didn't happen...

There seems to be something really serious going on with the poster who said that. In years past, there was always an attempt by this poster to understand an argument from both sides, but recently they seem determined to burn every bridge they have ever crossed. I empathize with them, as there is apparently considerable pain, but alienating every online person who ever considered one a friend is an unnecessarily negative and harmful approach to take.

[honorentheos]

There seems to be something really serious going on with the poster who said that. In years past, there was always an attempt by this poster to understand an argument from both sides, but recently they seem determined to burn every bridge they have ever crossed. I empathize with them, as there is apparently considerable pain, but alienating every online person who ever considered one a friend is an unnecessarily negative and harmful approach to take.

Hi Lem -

Rather than engage in passive aggressive antics, I'll note that you apparently recognized you needed to be called out for asshole behavior given your behavior changed afterward. If you hate me for doing so, so be it. It wasn't said with malice, but I also recognize it wasn't going to be received well. 'tis what it is.

As for this, well. I appreciate that tapirrider was nice enough to at least put up a post clarifying the position of those formerly arguing the event couldn't have happened because avaiation experts something something. Now, it turns out we all agree that the leader of the tax exempt hedge fund built on the backs of widows is someone who lies and exaggerates, and maybe isn't trustworthy. But that doesn't exempt us from investigating the truth of a thing with healthy skepticism and precautions against biases like those exhibited in this thread for a damn-ton of the discussion. Dr Moore was apparently forgetting the middle of this thread starting sometime around the mid-twenties up through at least the fifties when he posted above, which is fine. I didn't ever think he was asserting there was zero chance Nelson was on a plane that may have encountered some problem that, from his vantage as a non-pilot passenger in the 1970s, Russell M. Nelson considered life-threatening. Nor that this event led him to write his autobiography, or that the story then went on to grow up into a Mormon faith promoting folktale said by a GA over the pulpit and expand further by an adoring biographer. However, there were a number of posters who clearly stated their assessment was the entire story was made up, including that there was a problem on a plane ride. Res Ipsa was being abused, frankly, for urging caution in engaging the evidence with over-confidence. I, personally, thought then and still think the entire thread is an amaze-balls waste of time because the evidence that Nelson exaggerated the story existed plainly between the accounts given so chasing down FAA records or fanfiction stories about how a pilot of a plane in that situation would have reacted was accomplishing nothing outside of some odd masturbatory urge to revenge “F” the Church I suppose. At least when DrW, tapirrider and others argued there was no way Russell M. Nelson was on a plane at that time in that place that experienced anything close enough to have served as the germ of the story it seemed like the waste of time was meant to prove something not already demonstrated in the evidence. Whatever gets people off I guess.

Anyway, I'm still friendly to you, Lem. Otherwise I wouldn't call out your asshole behavior or address you directly when you turn to passive aggression and take swings. That's not contingent on anything you say or do. if your feelings of friendship are contingent on my always taking your side or never calling out a problem, that's ok by me. I don't consider flattering people friendship nor people who require it to be friends in a true sense of the word. But again, that's really neither here nor there. It's just exposition on a 4th rate take of some odd idea some dead guy had and wrote down once.