Peterson and Gee's libel against Ritner?

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_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

moksha wrote:
moksha wrote:Here is one item I do have some curiosity about, Juliann (@ MAD) said Kevin sent emails to her Professors about her. Why would something like this ever occur?


Was this addressed and I just missed it?


Kevin stated that he didn't refer to Juliann at all in his emails to her (and my) professors.
_Bond...James Bond
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Post by _Bond...James Bond »

Dr. Shades wrote:I know this isn't a substitute for substantive dialogue, but Juliann really, really needs to get laid.


And how.
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
_dartagnan
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Post by _dartagnan »

Was this addressed and I just missed it?


I sent emails to two prominent sociologists whom she had been citing for years. Incidentally, one of them was her former professor, and also LDS. I'm not sure I was even aware of that until after I emailed him and somene reminded me. I never mentioned her name in the email, nor did I cite an argument of hers. In short, the emails weren't "about Juliann." She wanted them to be, but they were not.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_Dr. Shades
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Post by _Dr. Shades »

harmony wrote:I can answer that one: yes. She thinks everyone why disagrees with her is stupid.

Ask her what a transcript is.


Oh man, I am LOL!

For anyone wondering, harmony is referring to the most epic thread ZLMB ever saw, which contained Juliann's first-ever meltdown and was the catalyst for ZLMBs destruction. You can read it here. It's a really long thread, so if you read nothing else, pay attention to pages 13, 15, 21, and 22.

Sorry for the diversion. Now back to your regularly-scheduled programming.
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_dartagnan
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Serious Update

Post by _dartagnan »

Ritner sent me a very long and detailed email this morning.

In it he accepted my apology, didn't seem concerned at all about the gay rumor, and further explained his position. I will provide a few points he made, but it should be perfectly clear to those who read it that his concern is on Peterson's alleged slander and not on anything I have done to offend him. Sorry David, Juliann and everyone else who wished to dictate the terms of Ritner's concerns. He disagrees with you:

1 - Ritner "explicitly disowned" Gee because of his apologetics pretended that "these non-Egyptological writings had the stamp of scholarly accuracy and my own personal approval as his teacher."

2- "There is no negative, personal 'history' between us, as his class grades would reveal."

3- "I probably shall post on-line mycorrespondence with him (which is my unrestricted intellectual
property) urging him to find a new advisor at Yale." [emphasis mine: If true, then this is huge, as it would prove that Ritner was the one who suggested Gee find another advisor!]

4- "Despite Mr. Peterson's remarks, such changes are not at all unusual or problematic, particularly as I initiated thesuggestion and detailed many changes regarding the accuracy of his work that would be needed for him to continue writing under my direction."

5- "It is my understanding that the offer of a job at BYU spurred the need for a fast conclusion to the dissertation, which required an advisor more willing to accept what I noted as severely problematic." [Wow. This makes sense, because Gee did get a job at BYU almost instantly]

6- "Under the circumstances, it is not extraordinary that Gee followed my suggestion." [contra Peterson]

7- "I was not in any way faulted or reprimanded" ["removed" according to Peterson]

8- "I was fully in agreement with the change that I had urged." [It was Gee's idea, not Ritner's, according to Peterson]

9- "To be blunt, any insinuation that there was a forced removal because the Department accused me of improprieties is false, and the spread of such a lie is being done only to discredit my reputation, as you note."

10- "I am shocked that Peterson, as a professor, would improperly hint at supposed details of confidential reviews (which cannot be seen nor analyzed by non-committee members). This is disgraceful."

11- "It is my wish to let the matter rest after the publication of Brent's volume."

12- "...if my writings have been of assistance to you or others in seeing the reasonable problems with the Abraham text and the actual content of the papyri, then any personal attacks are a minor issue, easily forgotten and forgiven."

Too bad Bokovoy ran off before reading this. I'd hate to see him have to eat his words yet again.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_dartagnan
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Post by _dartagnan »

I just caught up to a thread at Mad started by Analytics who offered a word of defense on my behalf. He analyzed what the situation was about, what I claimed and what Dan had said. After outlining all of the relevant citations over the past few years he concluded:

Here are some of my thoughts. I think Kevin accurately described to Ritner what Peterson has said. I believe Kevin’s questions were sincere and in good faith. I don’t believe Kevin was in any way trying to “do real life damage to the targeted Mormon professionally and personally” or otherwise “attempt to shut down those who would speak against the antis” because “antis have few professors who are willing to put themselves out there as anti-Mormons”.


Well, as you could expect, this didn’t go over too well. A moderator immediately shut down the thread with this:

“Why do you think you are entitled to recycle Graham's trash on our board? Thread closed.”

Recycle trash? I have been slandered and lied about by idiots like Kerry Shirts and Julian Reynolds for many months now.

Just take Juliann’s ridiculous comment when someone asked if I use a pseudonym:

He lies so much that it is hard to know. If it isn't his real name he was lying his head off to the Mormons he spent time, even staying at their homes when he was an mopoologist... with which is ickier and tells more about him than the other possibilities. Any wonder why his greatest fear is in identifying himself?


I hereby challenge Juliann to produce one single “lie” uttered by me. I dare her. I double dare her. The only people who keep bringing up the pseudonym factor are peple like Dan Peterson. I have shared the details of this with only two or three people, Shades included. And who are these Mormons I "spent time" who don't know my name? What the hell is she talking about? I showed up to one FAIR conference and shook her hand and spoke with her for all of four seconds. That was it. Ever since then it has been internet communication.

This is her little smear campaign against me because she knows she can get away with it. She said so herself. She said she created that forum for people like her. No wonder they let her do whatever she wants. Elsewhere she has accused me of lying in emails I send out to scholars. OK, like what? When I was posting there I was mopping the floors with her while proving it was Juliann who was lying to Mauss in her emails.

She never had the guts to say these things when I was posting there and she and Kerry are too scared to deal with me in forums where I post, unlike other people with integrity. They’d rather hide behind their anonymous protectors at MAD while hurling insults left and right across the web.

I may criticize their poor attempts at apologetics and ability to think rationally, but to accuse someone of lying like this is childish; especially when you cannot produce any examples.

Before this thread was shut down Bokovoy threw in his ridiculous statement: “I find Dan’s comments of no real issue whatsoever especially when compared with what Kevin himself was guilty of spewing in the past:”

What Bokovoy doesn’t tell his audience is that I informed Ritner of my past “spewing” and apologized for it. The only difference between Dan and I is that he hasn't apologized, nor does he intend to. Bokovoy also neglects to inform them that I uttered a rumor I had heard on the FAIR e-list, and was congratulated for doing so. Now, suddenly those who found my comment praiseworthy pretend they are “sickened” by it. Why? Because they need to take focus off of Dan's repeated comments. Typical, but this is precisely the kind of two-faced nonsense that drove me away from that crowd.

Bokovoy implied I was lying about this so I provided the email in which Ritner said he wasn’t worried about what I said. He was worried about what Dan said. So it is irrelevant if Bokovoy finds Dan’s statements “of no real issue.” What matters is that Ritner does.

But hey, all of this is just my “trash,” right Chaos?
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_dartagnan
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Post by _dartagnan »

memories...
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_charity
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Post by _charity »

I guess you can leave Dan Peterson, but you just can't leave Dan Peterson alone.
_dartagnan
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Post by _dartagnan »

Actually, it seems Gee can leave Ritner, but can't leave Ritner alone.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Peterson and Gee's libel against Ritner?

Post by _Kevin Graham »

bump
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