LDS Cult Tithing Horror Stories

[_Jason Bourne]

I honestly believed this while a TBM. When our circumstances became difficult, I never went to the food bank or requested any other assistance from the bishop. We made good use of the dried stuffs in our food storage we had bought several years before. Our grass stayed dead for 2 years for lack of water, yard sales for clothes and much of Christmas. We paid a full tithe even though, for about 4 months, we lived entirely off our credit cards.

It was the tithing that kept us at the poverty level

Sorry but I don't buy it. Tithing does not keep you at the poverty level. 10% is helpful but it is not that much. Plus if you deduct it on your tax return it is not really 10%. Let's see, I am not sure what poverty level is. Like around 38k for a family of four? $3800 is going to help but it ain't a make or break. Most people I know who tithe do quite fine on what is left over. Most budget and plan for the expense and make ends meet. Maybe your circumstances were different though.

Our circumstances were much different, Jason. I would have pulled the gold fillings from my teeth.

In our worst four years the best line 32 read on our 1040 was $22k (net income before deductions). Up at 5am bed at 1-3am, School, 1-2 jobs, 3 kids, 1 car I repaired myself, maternity bills (we paid cash). We didn't realize we had it so bad until the bishop showed up with a couple bags of groceries. We received a $1,200 deduction per child. Income after taxes was about $15k. To top it off, I got laid off for refusing to work Sundays. Hardly saw my family. Felt like I didn't deserve them when I did see them - guilt I learned from the mission.

$2,200 meant the world. Instead, I gave it to those disconnected from the plight of humanity - imported tile, brass handles, statues..

We were entirely on our own. No family to fall back on.

We now teach our children not to live so ignorantly.

Not running faster than you're able means to outright reject some of the teachings of the Mormon church.

Maybe you did have it tough. I have had it tough too. I had a number of years with 3 kids, I worked, wife worked and I was in college. We lived in a cheep ols house that was only $250 a month rent and it was not very nice. We made about $9000-$12000 per year between us then (1983-1985) and still tithed. $25 a week for tithing seemed like a lot but we did not miss nor did it ever cause us undue hardship.

[_Jason Bourne]

As others have stated, if one wants to obtain a recommend at that very moment, the only solution is back tithing. You can't promise to be good from now on and pay it in the future.

Certainly you can start anew, and in some "specific time period", try once again for a recommend.

If you all are suggesting that bishops would NOT ask for back tithing to renew a recommend at that moment, I'd like to see proof of that, because it happened to me, too. In fact, I paid as much as I could at that moment, but still lacked 200 dollars. 200 dollars meant a lot to me back then (well, still does, but not quite as much). I told the bishop I intended to catch up that last 200 dollars ASAP, but no matter. I was still marked as a "partial" tithe payer, and even worse, my father, who was some sort of stake clerk at the time "heard" I was only a PARTIAL tithe payer and fussed at me about it.

Depends on the bishop really.

[_Blixa]

As others have stated, if one wants to obtain a recommend at that very moment, the only solution is back tithing. You can't promise to be good from now on and pay it in the future.

Certainly you can start anew, and in some "specific time period", try once again for a recommend.

If you all are suggesting that bishops would NOT ask for back tithing to renew a recommend at that moment, I'd like to see proof of that, because it happened to me, too. In fact, I paid as much as I could at that moment, but still lacked 200 dollars. 200 dollars meant a lot to me back then (well, still does, but not quite as much). I told the bishop I intended to catch up that last 200 dollars ASAP, but no matter. I was still marked as a "partial" tithe payer, and even worse, my father, who was some sort of stake clerk at the time "heard" I was only a PARTIAL tithe payer and fussed at me about it.

Depends on the bishop really.

That was my point a few pages ago, and in my opinion the heart of the problem.

[_beastie]

Depends on the bishop really.

Well, then my bishop was obviously a pr*ck. But then, he was the same one that made my exhusband a counselor in his bishopric AFTER my parents had asked with him to intervene and help me, and after I had confided in him as well. So I guess his behavior was consistent all around.

[_Yoda]

18 months ago, I broke my leg and severely damaged the knee joint. I spent 2 weeks in the hospital and a month in rehab before I could come home. I had a really mean therapist. He made me do excerises which hurt like crazy. One of the worst was when he would bend my lower leg back to increase the flexibility. It hurt so bad I would almost cry. I hated those exercises. And at times whne the pain was really bad, I hated him. On the wekeends, I had a different therapist. She was really sweet, and she wouldn't push nearly so hard on my leg to make it bend. And it didn't hurt nearly so bad.

I'm glad that things worked out for you, Charity, and that you were able to heal and have a full recovery. But can you be so sure that the female therapist who was a little "nicer" was less competent? Maybe she was being a little bit more cautious because that was her job. Maybe it was simply a different approach. Did you report her to anyone as incompetent? Did you ever talk to her and ask her why the treatments were so different between therapists, and why the other therapist pushed you harder? How can you be so sure that you would not have healed and still made significant progress had she not run the majority of your care?

I teach primarily through positive reinforcement. When I have a voice student who is doing something incorrectly, I don't spend a lot of time berating that student. That is wasted energy. My thought process is on how we fix the problem.

Positive reinforcement allows you to develop a trust with the student so that they can accept constructive criticism from you.

You seem to be under the impression that "tough love" is the best approach. In some instances, this can be effective, but in my personal experiences, I have achieved far greater success in my interpersonal relationships with more positive approaches.

[_ludwigm]

I realize that without the belief that tithing is the Lord's command, it is hard to understand it. But tihting is the commandmetn of the Lord, in the plainest terms. If you fail to pay your tithing you are robbing God. Plain and simple.
...

Does God need the two mites of a certain poor widow? If this is the case, (and if exists such being as God) then I have nothing to do with this being. Plain and simple.
Call me an atheist or bigot anti-mormon.

And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.

Apropos, do You know what does it mean "mite"?

The cross-reference of "mites" at http://scriptures.LDS.org/en/mark/12/42b leads to "Topical Guide:poor", and says

42a TG Poor. Deut. 16:17.
Every man shall give as he is able, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee.

After this "information", do You know what does it mean "mite"?

mite n.
1.1. A very small contribution or amount of money.
1.2. A widow's mite.
2. A very small object, creature, or particle.
3. A coin of very small value, especially an obsolete British coin worth half a farthing.

[_Inconceivable]

Maybe you did have it tough. I have had it tough too. I had a number of years with 3 kids, I worked, wife worked and I was in college. We lived in a cheep ols house that was only $250 a month rent and it was not very nice. We made about $9000-$12000 per year between us then (1983-1985) and still tithed. $25 a week for tithing seemed like a lot but we did not miss nor did it ever cause us undue hardship.

Only as I look back on it do I recognize the unecessary hardship we went through. I missed my family and they missed me for about 10 years. We looked perfect at church. It was the longest we were together on a regular basis. And even there, we were separated.

I was unquestioning only because I was deceived and betrayed. I had no idea what the long term consequences were upon my family until just a few years ago.

[_Coggins7]

You are mistaken. He's doing is meat before milk, that's all. It seems to me that even if he does spin, it's for the greater good. If Mormons can lie for the lord, why can't critics lie for the truth? He's just spinning in the opposite direction that the church is spinning so as to nullify all that spinning.

Let's face it; Mormons are pretty spinny.

Lie on. Make your bed and lie in it.

Keep up the pose.

[_Coggins7]

It is not a good motivator to suggest that what seems harmful, horrible, and wrong is actually good and in the next life one will find the horrible good.

Need I point out the subjectivity, even solipsism, of all this?

I do not see why someone would want to have faith in that which feels cruel and horrible with the idea that in the next life the horrible will be wonderful, the cruel will be holy, and the disgusting will be peaceful.

What you feel is cruel and horrible in this life according to your own conditioned assumptions? Perhaps not so good a template.

I have said over and over that I have no idea what is possible in the eternities… I HIGHLY doubt the next life will resemble anything a human can come up with, and I certainly HOPE it will not be remotely like the LDS version, nevertheless, who knows?

Since you clearly have no substantive understanding of the LDS verison, no matter...

Actually, I am a vegetarian and do think eating meat is disgusting. I’m pretty sure I would be quite ill if I ate meat at this point in my life… if I could even get meat in my mouth.

Oh my, how morally superior you are...

I just suggest that this may be the case. And as you said, our limited human minds cannot possibly comprehend the mysteries of the universe. ]

In that case, how do you know the LDS "version" is not the correct one?

Let me try once again. I have repeatedly stated that I do not know what is the next life and I do not think humans can even imagine let alone grasp the totality of eternity or existence. I am totally open to whatever may happen… any one of the thousands of versions of the afterlife may actually be the true one but I highly doubt it.

Then how do you know the LDS version is not the correct one?

Regardless of this…. I do not see why it is a good or healthy thing to hold to the idea, or have faith in the idea that what we hold as good and holy will actually be horrible in the next life, OR that what we find unhealthy or horrible in this life will actually be great and wonderful.

For the simple reason, TD, that what we consider good or noble in this life, may in point of fact, be evil. How do you discern which is which?

No Charity.. it may violate your law of Moses approach but a Bishop can (and they do at times), embrace the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law. The world is not quite so black and white Charity. Because YOU have an issue with people abiding by YOUR rules doesn’t mean that this is the way the world, or the church responds to life and individuals. Do you not believe a Bishop can be inspired? Do you not believe the Bishop can feel the promptings of the HG?

I know a few people whom a Bishop excused from tithing due to certain circumstances. Now TD, as you don't buy a particle of the LDS faith, is not this argument made itself in bad faith? Is it not just rhetorical?

Do you think YOUR mean spirited approach

Typical liberal; take the moral hight ground when none in fact exists. Makes you feel morally superior to Charity even as you lose the argument doesn't it?

So typical...

[_wenglund]

From Racer:My dad is hard working, honest, blue-collar guy. The world hasn't always been to kind to him. He found himself out of a job many times as I was a child. You could say we grew up poor. We qualified for welfare and free school lunch, but my dad had too much diginity and pride to accept the freebies. He busted his ass and made every penny count.

By the time I was in high school things were working out for my dad and he had stable work with benefits. Our lives improved, but it wasn't like we were rolling in cash. We had moved out of poverity status into the lower middle class status. Money was still tight.

I was never one of those kids who saved for a mission because honestly I never considered it until I was a SR in HS. My dad was proud when I decided to serve; I was the first in my family to serve a mission. The mission would cost $365 a month. My Dad's monthly tithing was about $365 a month. If he paid for both it would be over $700 a month and he just couldn't afford to do that.

My dad decided to skip out on tithing and fund my mish. The Bishop chastised him for this and told him tithing always came first. He should pay his tithing no matter what, and the ward would pay for my mission. My Dad had too much dignity to do that. Also, my Dad reasoned that it was sixes. He tithes $365, and the church turned around and gave him $365 back to pay for my mission. How is that any different than skipping tithing and just paying for my mission?

2 years later I arrived home, and a month after I got home, my brother left on his mission. So basically, my dad did not pay tithing for 4 years because he was funding missions.

About a year into my brother's mission I got engaged. I was going to be sealed in the temple. My dad's TR had lapsed, so he went to get it renewed a couple of days before the wedding. Of course, he hadn't been paying tithing for 3 years because he was funding missions. The Bishop knew this and told him he had to at least pay a years worth of back tithing before he would renew the recommend. This came to roughly $4000. My dad went out and got a loan and paid the money. I was pissed at the whole situation. My dad just said: "It was worth it to be able to attend my son's wedding." The sad thing is; in any other situation no one would have to pay 4 g's to be able to attend their kid's wedding.

I want everyone who is teeter-tottering on whether the LDS church is for them or not to understand this story.

Forget Joseph Smith marrying a bunch of teens, forget about the uneasy history of Mormonism, forget about DNA and the Book of Mormon, and the contradicting doctrines. All churches have these things in common to some degree.

The worst thing about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the way it treats its own members and families. It claims to be pro family, but it splits up families and screws with people's lives. It makes them pay large sums of money in order to see a loved one's wedding. It takes, and takes, and takes. Whether it is your time, money, or sanity. It sucks you dry and does not give back anything of value except some pipe dream of a perfect afterlife. An afterlife which the church makes you feel is impossible to obtain, and uses this to heap unecessary guilt upon it's members.

It's not the doctrine that makes the church a damaging cult. It's the way they screw their members over. Such as not letting a father attend his child's wedding unless he pays $4000.

So, if I understand "Racer" correctly, he has decided to take the remarkably loving, movingly self-sacrificing, and inspiring personal choices of his father, and use them to spitefull beat his father's beloved church over the head with.

If so, then how could this not make "Racer's" father feel the deepest sense of pride for his son?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-