Does DCP Require Biased Moderation?

[_the road to hana]

As an example, most of my "ward-members" probably look at my situation and say I left because of sin. What they saw was that I started drinking alcohol, then my wife and I divorced, and I left the church.

Quite a familiar pattern. I'll bet that many male posters on this Board are divorced and left the church after their divorce. Feelings of failure and inadequacy in one most important part of a life -- important as far as God is concerned -- causes many to just pitch it all. Failing in marriage --- gee, why try? Might as well get lickered up or enjoy that bong hit. It happens in good Catholic and Evangelical households.

An additional fact to add to your description is then resort to this Board and Boards like it. To find the same sense of community they had while married and in the Church. Except, now, it is to throw turds on the synagogue.

Almost without exception, every ex-Mormon male I know personally is still married to an LDS woman, has a family being raised in the LDS Church, and is keeping both marriage and family together. Many of them continue to attend LDS meetings with family members, if not every week, frequently.

That might not be representative of this board, or of the entire population of male exmo posters online, or all male exmos. I don't happen to know one personally, that is in my own circle of close friends who've left the church, who is divorced.

[_Chap]

Well, I try not to be nasty.

Goodness only knows what you would be like if you STOPPED trying.

I don't have a whole lot respect for folks who anonymously come on to internet boards and champion their credentials as an academic -- top ten school, etc. etc. I mean, why? It is kinda like bragging about one's Second Life scenario, isn't it?

Your respect is irrelevant to me, I am glad to say. Feel free to believe that everything I said was no more than the ravings of a divorced drunken apostate full of self-loathing. In fact, I'd prefer that you did, since any sign of regard from your direction would make me feel distinctly uncomfortable about myself.

[_beastie]

Can you give me a source for this very definite statement? You know the categories of reasons why people leave, and that at least half are for reasons dealing with doctrinal/histroical/theological reasons? CFR.

The reference is COMMON SENSE. Moreover, I didn't say "half" the people who leave due so for doctrinal reasons. I say for every person YOU KNOW that has left for "sin", in your estimation, there's one you know nothing about who left for doctrinal reasons. Now unless you're pretending that you know half the people who have left the LDS church, there is a huge difference between what I said and what you attributed to me.

The common sense is based on the numbers of posters who have come and gone over the years, posting on various boards.

I know quite a few people who aren't "nice." And not all of them inhabit this board. And geneerally I assume people are honest and upfront, and don't do one thing in public and another in private.

I am honest and upfront here AND in real life. But I do NOT seek out people to discuss Mormonism with in REAL LIFE. I don't bring the subject of religion up AT ALL. Now maybe if "real life" provided places specifically labeled for interaction between believer and exbeliever, I would to discuss it. But real life doesn't do that. The internet does. So all those people who politely just don't discuss religion with YOU in real life may like to talk about it on the internet. That's not dishonest or sneaky, or "doing one thing in public and another in private".

by the way, do you commonly refer to people as "satan's minions" in real life, too, or tell people in real life that you need to "dumb down" your words for them? If not, then you are doing one thing in public and another in private. For shame!

[_BishopRic]

And you are here why? Apart from the fact that your nasty way of talking about others might make your life uncomfortable were you in physical reach of the people you are talking about ... so you have to throw your [the word you used] on an internet chat board.

Yuk!

Well, I try not to be nasty. I think that sometimes some of things I say tend to offend because I am a little blunt, and for that I'll apologize.

I think I have respect for men who suffer a divorce and have difficulty in other parts of their lives. (I also see as a familiar pattern an attempt to then blame the Church for the divorce -- but similar fact patterns exist in other cultures; men just want to point to finger of blame at persons other than themselves; oh so typical; manhood and virility at stake. Getting divorced is almost as bad as getting cuckolded, wouldn't ya say?)

I don't have a whole lot respect for folks who anonymously come on to internet boards and champion their credentials as an academic -- top ten school, etc. etc. I mean, why? It is kinda like bragging about one's Second Life scenario, isn't it?

Just fyi, my wife and I spent 6 years following my religious transition in marriage counseling. She was/is a beautiful woman and an outstanding mother. I don't blame "the church" for our divorce...we just happened to have both been raised in it, and I learned enough to lead me out, and our life-paths changed. Our interests and goals were different, and in the end, our counselor advised us to split for the benefit of the kids -- to have parents that could follow their dreams. It was the best thing we could have done -- for everybody involved.

[_the road to hana]

I don't have a whole lot respect for folks who anonymously come on to internet boards and champion their credentials as an academic -- top ten school, etc. etc. I mean, why?

Does that include yourself?

[_cksalmon]

I am trying to play nice, but you are making it hard. So, when I give you a list of reasons why I KNOW people have left the Church, you come back and make an assumption that historical issues play a bigger part than I know? I would say you have no basis to make that assumption. Except that generally anti-Mormons and critics like to think that.

In a fairly-limited sample set, admittedly, I haven't come across any ex-LDS whose departure from the faith was not rooted in and precipitated by historical/doctrinal issues. Perhaps those are merely the types who frequent Mormon-themed MB's.

CKS

.

[_charity]

In a fairly-limited sample set, admittedly, I haven't come across any ex-LDS whose departure from the faith was not rooted in and precipitated by historical/doctrinal issues. Perhaps those are merely the types who frequent Mormon-themed MB's.

CKS

.

That makes sense to me. What person is going to come on a message board and say, "I left the Church because I cheated on my spouse and got booted." or "I really wanted to spend thousands of dollars in having my personality adjusted, and I couldn't do that and pay tithing at the same time, and besides most of my "adjustments" were done on weekend, and I couldn't go to church anyway."

I agree, message board converations around doctinal historical,etc. issues will find a better recpetion.

[_truth dancer]

Charity wrote:

Could you please read what I said I don't think people are lured away....." It is only a couple of lines above this[/color].

I did read what you wrote and I didn't say you think people are lured away.

I commented on the apologetic mantra that "Satan's influence" is the cause of disbelief.

Charity wrote:

Just as I was chastised for making statements about why I thought people left, you should be a little more humble about such pronouncments. I am sure some, if not many, do.

Could you please give us even one statement/quote from a disbeliever who says she/he was looking for (and found) excuses to leave the church which resulted in her/his disbelief.

Of the many, many disbelievers I have encountered I have never come across even one who would claim the reason for their disbelief is because they were looking for an excuse to leave.

Thanks,

~dancer~

[_beastie]

That makes sense to me. What person is going to come on a message board and say, "I left the Church because I cheated on my spouse and got booted." or "I really wanted to spend thousands of dollars in having my personality adjusted, and I couldn't do that and pay tithing at the same time, and besides most of my "adjustments" were done on weekend, and I couldn't go to church anyway."

I agree, message board converations around doctinal historical,etc. issues will find a better recpetion.

Funny how you phrased that to insinuate posters are not telling the truth about why they leave.

[_antishock8]

I am completely stunned by the Mormons on this board. I have never seen such a complete set of *** in my life.

In my experience, people leave the Church for the following reasons (listed by most common to least numerically):

1) Church doctrines are false, historically whitewashed, lied about, obfuscated, strange, crazy, conveniently change, and/or insane.

2) The Church makes them unhappy.

3) Disfellowshipped/Excommunicated.

4) Other/Unknown

I would say #1 accounts for 90% of the ex-Mormons. #2 Accounts for about the other 9%. #3 for less than 1%. And #4... Who knows...

This survey was conducted in by the Journel of American Christians and Kinsmen of American Secularist Studies.