How Much Are LDS Apologists Paid?

[_William Schryver]

Enough to have noticed that, when one is going strong here in Shadyville, Lizzie always seems to find herself right in the middle of it.

What's the matter, Willy? Can you not take it as well as you can dish it out?

I'm quite certain that I can't take it as well as you can. I'm sure you've got most of us bested in that department.

Well, everyone except Scratch, that is.

[_Chap]

Why not go ask DCP yourself if he has honestly never been compensated for any book or review he has published for FARMS.

Why would I do that and why would he answer me?

Because I don't post over there. You do, don't you?

It is not I who said they get paid. It was you. Thus the burden of this claim is in your camp.

I can't prove it Jason. I never said I could. I also probably couldn't prove to you how much money my dad makes, or even prove to you how much money my girlfriend makes... I say I know he gets paid because of what I know from personal experience and because logically, it doesn't make sense for them not to get paid - whether you want to call it a stipend, travel expense, or whatever...

Personal experience: legitimate to post a claim based on that. And interesting.

Logical deduction: legitimate to post a claim based on that. But not very interesting in itself, since the payment or otherwise of LDS apologists is not something we can settle by pure reason.

[_antishock8]

Mr. Schryver,

Are you stating that mopologists don't earn "one cent" from their apologetic work? What's your position on this issue?

[_Mister Scratch]

I have written for FARMS. I wasn't paid anything.

But, you wrote only one article. Perhaps arrangements are different for those higher up on the totem pole? by the way: were you offered remuneration in any way? I.e., in the form of contributor copies, or anything of that nature?

I have arranged for speaking engagement for FARMS directors who are also employed by BYU. The flight expense came out of my pocket. I arranged to pick them up at the airport. Accommodations were on their own nickel (they always stayed with friends or family). They received no payment from me.

And were these speakers engaged in Mopologetics?

Similarly, in my professional capacity I have arranged for speakers from universities to speak to professional or business groups. They are salaried at their institutions but don't receive payment from us for seminar participation. The groups I work with, however, do arrange for their hotel room, food and a rental car.

Again, were these speakers engaged in an apologetic capacity?

Similarly, I have been a panelist and a presenter at various business groups. I am not paid for what I publish there; I don't get paid for panel participation. My hotel room and travel are comp'd. I have never obtained business as the result of any seminar of which I was a panelist, although one of my motivations for doing this is to attract business.

And no doubt the actions of DCP & et. al. serve a similar "drumming up business" function.

I think what the FARMS presenters do is pretty formulaic in academia.

There is even less evidence for this than what GoodK has been claiming. First, the notion that FARMS Review uses normative peer review was exploded. Now it seems that that organization's "business practices" are less than typical as well.

[_Mister Scratch]

The "proof" that you're referring to is GoodK's testimonial. I'm sort of curious why you seem so unwilling to accept this, especially since it's been established, both by GoodK him/herself, and, implicitly, by rcrocket, that Goodk is the son/daughter of a fairly prominent FARMS author... Don't you therefore think that GoodK would be in a reasonably good position to know this stuff? You know, sort of like how Joseph Smith and teachers in the Church are in a good position to correctly interpret D&C 76?

The things you are assuming about GoodK's father are untrue.

Why do you say that? Has GoodK's father produced any material for FARMS? Y/N?

Furthermore, you and GoodK have me at a disadvantage. I have told GoodK I won't "out" him or her with any more details about his/her life, but she/he is feeing you sub rosa personal information you're just repeating here.

Scratch, your source is way off as well as you are.

How do you mean? Or are you just using your "oath of secrecy" to wiggle out of this one, counselor?

[_GoodK]

Take a look at Bob's involvement with FARMS:


http://farms.BYU.edu/viewauthor.php?authorID=482

68 pages in the FARMS review, including pictures, footnotes - plus the review is a smaller paper back book.

There is nothing you need to reveal about my personal identity regarding this issue, I never said anything that relied on that besides that my dad told me certain things, which is true, but hardly debatable.

Are you really trying to imply the authors of books produced by FARMS receive no compensation, BOB?

Come on, I really don't see what the big deal is. It's almost similar to the reaction I got when I asked how much money the Church officials make.


Please, give me a straight answer- Dan Peterson hasn't received any compensation for any of his books he has published through FARMS?

Answer that simple question, if you know, and then we'll move on to the other guys.

[_ajax18]

Perhaps The Good Professor will turn up shortly in order to explain himself?

I'm not holding my breath, I'm beginning to think I chose the wrong career. Normally I read and write on here for fun. Who would have ever thought that the religion majors would get the good jobs. Heck I could have even tried to throw my hat into being MP or some other paid calling later in life. It maight not have been that bad a job.

[_Mister Scratch]

Perhaps The Good Professor will turn up shortly in order to explain himself?

I'm not holding my breath, I'm beginning to think I chose the wrong career.

Oh, I won't be holding my breath either, though I think DCP's silence on this issue is very telling. Furthermore, the apoplectic, foul-mouthed responses from some believers, such as Will Schryver and rcrocket, to this thread, are illuminating and revealing as well.

[_Mister Scratch]

Here's another interesting tidbit I dug up (once again from the rather embarrassing SHIELDS website):

Besides, this is apples and oranges. I earn absolutely none of my salary for writing on Mormon topics. Zilch. Zero. I make my living teaching academic subjects like Arabic and Near Eastern studies, and for directing international research projects. So I would gladly trade my income from Mormon subjects for yours. Are you game? Can you live on nothing?

Here he's saying, pretty explicitly, that he gets "nothing" from his apologetic work. Does this ring falsely to anyone else? I mean, there are all kinds of ways which he could be (and indeed, probably is) drawing a paycheck in this realm:
---Giving lectures
---Writing articles
---Working for FARMS
---Publishing apologetic works
---Setting aside his time in other ways
---Etc., etc., etc.

It needs to be noted that there is a provision in the BYU faculty handbook (or whatever else it's called) that allows for "part time leave" (which is pretty typical in academia). I wonder: Has DCP been playing semantic games with some of these more esoteric bits of academic terminology? I.e., is he saying he's not paid "salary" for his Mopologetics, when, in fact, he's getting money with some other designation? (E.g., "research funds"?) In either case, it is very interesting to note that he always, without fail, includes the qualifier "my salary" when he's discussion payment and apologetics. He doesn't simply say, "I get no money from apologetics" (although the above does come awfully close to it); instead, he always says, "I don't get my salary from apologetics." Sneaky? You make the call!

The more I think about it, the more I think GoodK's basic premise is the soundest---you know, Occam's Razor and all of that. It may be that DCP has earned very little money from his apologetic ventures. Further, he could be doing something such as pumping whatever earnings he's made right back into FARMS's coffers, thus giving him the marginal though disingenuous right to claim that he "makes nothing." Then again, I don't think it's beyond reason to surmise that he has earned well into the mid six-figure range for his apologetic work over the years.

[_Mister Scratch]

Please, give me a straight answer- Dan Peterson hasn't received any compensation for any of his books he has published through FARMS?

Answer that simple question, if you know, and then we'll move on to the other guys.

Yes, about the "other guys"---I've long speculated that there is a kind of "inner sanctum," or "cabal," if you will, of Mopologists who are making bank on their work. Now, these are just guesses, but I would imagine that the "Inner Sanctum" of paid Mopologists would include:

---Bill Hamblin
---Matt Roper
---John Tvedtness (sp?)
---John Sorenson

Just for starters, anyways. I would bet that Bob is partially right, too, and that they manage to save money (i.e., for themselves) by recruiting a lot of volunteer work.