Split from Harmony's Thread, Who Needs To Know?

[_Moniker]

Oh. Man. I would have noticed the woman saying that she was in a relationship with him (he later became my husband and actually proposed that day).

I thought it happened with more than one guy.

The time you stated it was in relation to my first time doing a certain drug with my soon to be husband -- you made the date rape remark.

Anyway, 2 men sexually active with under the influence of drugs! My first long term boyfriend (THREE+ YEARS -- is that promiscuous by the way for a teenager???) and I did LSD a lot! Then I had a man I met that rocked my socks and did loads of drugs with him and then ended up marrying him.

I loved those men in my own special, youthful way, and I loved doing drugs with them. See, isn't it interesting how when we don't know the whole story we just make up things to fill in the gaps?

Oh, and I did drugs with plenty of other fellas and didn't sleep with them....

[_Moniker]

Posting one more thought about this "true colors" nonsense...

If a woman has been severely abused, not necessarily will she trust you enough to reveal such a thing after just one year...and not all abused women are neurotic...

There's still that assumption that an abused woman is going to misbehave somehow. Not necessarily!

Also, as in my case, she could actually be blocking the incident of abuse as a survival mechanism. It might take some type of dramatic event, like the birth of a child, etc. to actually trigger a flashback reaction.

I'm sorry, Liz.

[_Sam Harris]

Posting one more thought about this "true colors" nonsense...

If a woman has been severely abused, not necessarily will she trust you enough to reveal such a thing after just one year...and not all abused women are neurotic...

There's still that assumption that an abused woman is going to misbehave somehow. Not necessarily!

I'm not sure the assumption is that a woman who was abused as a child is going to "misbehave." I think the assumption is that a woman who was abused as a child is less pure, less innocent, and is going to carry excessive baggage that the man is not equipped to deal with. I call "bull" on that. Virtually everyone carries baggage, even the men who run at the first hint of abuse. Many many women have the same hangups I do (they are uncomfortable being unclothed or they cannot sleep if someone is touching them), but that doesn't mean their hangups exist for the same reasons mine do (maybe they have a poor body image because of an overly critical mother or they never had to share a bed). To blame ones quirks on abuse in childhood may or may not be a correct assumption.

My problem with the assumptions is the "less pure, less innocent" part, in addition to the assumption that the baggage is unbearable. Is a woman who as a 6 year old was forced to perform fellatio on a teenaged uncle somehow "less pure"? Where is the justice in that? How can a child be held accountable for something like that?

I agree with you, a woman is not less pure or less innocent because she has been mistreated. And I agree that everyone carries baggage, why it is assumed that an abused person carries more baggage is beyond me. I think that since we are a more open culture now with regards to getting help with letting go of our baggage or recognizing that we have it, people tend to assume that the baggage is bigger than it is. That's not fair.

No one should be held accountable for being abused. Period. The youngsters (because mentally that's what they were) who walked away from your daughter are better off with the little girls they end up with.

[_Scottie]

Not necessarily. I know of people whose true colors have taken years to show. There are things about me my own family don't even know, and they're my blood kin...

They may now know the specifics, but your personality can't be hidden for very long.

If a person (man or woman) has not sufficiently dealt with past abuses, chances are that they have developed some personality traits as self-defense mechanisms that can't be hidden.

However, there are varying levels of abuse and varying levels of what a person will do to protect themselves. Some people that suffer massive abuse can be perfectly normal people. Others who suffer minor abuses can harbor resentment other emotional issues for years and years.

I don't believe that you can hide these personality traits for long in a relationship.

[_Sam Harris]

Posting one more thought about this "true colors" nonsense...

If a woman has been severely abused, not necessarily will she trust you enough to reveal such a thing after just one year...and not all abused women are neurotic...

There's still that assumption that an abused woman is going to misbehave somehow. Not necessarily!

Also, as in my case, she could actually be blocking the incident of abuse as a survival mechanism. It might take some type of dramatic event, like the birth of a child, etc. to actually trigger a flashback reaction.

((((((((((((((((((Liz))))))))))))))))))

If men only knew just what a labyrinth the secret garden of a woman's heart and mind truly was/is...

We aren't that predictable.

[_Yoda]

I lost my faith and my ex couldn't find the strength to stand by me. She would have never married me if I had not been Mormon. This dynamic changed our relationship, and it ended in a divorce. Is she wrong?

Yes.

[_Scottie]

And I agree that everyone carries baggage, why it is assumed that an abused person carries more baggage is beyond me. I think that since we are a more open culture now with regards to getting help with letting go of our baggage or recognizing that we have it, people tend to assume that the baggage is bigger than it is. That's not fair.

That's like saying that smoking doesn't ALWAYS cause lung cancer, so why is everyone assuming that smoking is bad???

The sad fact is that many adults that were abused as children develop defense mechanisms. These carry over into adult life. They have intimacy problems. They have trust issues. It is VERY hard to be married to someone who has these issues. I was married to one.

Please note that I've said repeatedly that not ALL abused children will grow up to have problems. But many of them will. Just as not all smokers will die of lung cancer, many will.

[_Sam Harris]

I think the key here is "varying levels". You cannot sense that right away, and no one should be written off because someone sniffs a "varying level". That "varying level" can rise...or it can fall. Mine have over the years. I'd be utterly alone if I were subjected to some of the judgement I've seen on this thread, seriously. And I'm a good person. That's alarming. I'm grateful for those who saw past the "varying levels" to the heart beneath.

[_Scottie]

I think the key here is "varying levels". You cannot sense that right away, and no one should be written off because someone sniffs a "varying level". That "varying level" can rise...or it can fall. Mine have over the years. I'd be utterly alone if I were subjected to some of the judgement I've seen on this thread, seriously. And I'm a good person. That's alarming. I'm grateful for those who saw past the "varying levels" to the heart beneath.

I don't think anybody here is saying that you can sense that "right away". Hence my post where I said that you can hide it for a while, but not long.

And nobody is saying you're not a good person. I ADORE YOU!! But being a good person doesn't always equate with being a good match. I know my limits. I know my personality. I know what level of emotional support I can offer someone. It sounds as if I would not be able to provide you the amount of support you need. You have been lucky enough to find someone that can provide that for you. That is GREAT!

However, you seem to be condemning me because I am not able to provide that. Should I be labeled the bastard because I know my limits? If I were to date a girl for a year and her personality was such that she was closed off, emotionally unavailable, etc., regardless if she told me about past abuses or not, should I not be able to decide that she is not the best match for me without being labeled a bastard?

[_harmony]

They have intimacy problems. They have trust issues. It is VERY hard to be married to someone who has these issues. I was married to one.

Granted, sometimes abused women have intimacy problems and trust issues. However, those problems aren't the sole property of abused women. I know several people who have intimacy problems and trust issues who were not abused as children, some of which aren't women. Many men have problems with intimacy and trust, although the problems tend to manifest themselves differently for men than for women. That sometimes abuse victims will manifest intimacy and trust issues doesn't mean everyone with intimacy and trust issues was abused, nor does it mean that it is the norm for abuse victims to manifest those kinds of problems.

The same abuse effects different people differently. Of a pair of abused sisters who usually suffered the abuse together, one became extremely promiscous, married several times, had numerous affairs and the other opted for a traditional marriage although she refused to have children. Same abuse, different outcomes.

Perhaps this is a representative sample; perhaps it isn't.

And how does one know, prior to marriage, that one has intimacy or trust issues, if intimacy prior to marriage is forbidden?