Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

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_gramps
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Re: Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

Post by _gramps »

I received Richard Anderson's book just a bit ago on the three and eight witnesses.

Are testimonies, such as the following, those in which DCP argues we should have confidence? This was from some random page I opened up:

In later life David relived the journey, picturing himself and Oliver on the spring seat of the wagon, with Joseph behind on the board bed. The earliest journal account relates David's story as follows: "And an aged man about 5 feet 10, heavy set and on his back an old fashioned army knapsack strapped over his shoulders and something square in it, and he walked alongside of the wagon and wiped the sweat off his face, smiling very pleasant. David asked him to ride and he replied, 'I am going across to the Hill Cumorah.' Soon after they passed, they felt strange and stopped but could see nothing of him—all around was clear. And they asked the Lord about it. He said that the Prophet looked as white as a sheet and said that it was one of the Nephites, and that he had the plates " 30 In another interview David portrayed the messenger carrying the plates, "about 5 feet 8 or 9 inches tall and heavy set," with "large" face, "a suit of brown woolen clothes, his hair and beard . . . white."


Well,...
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Re: Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

Post by _Scottie »

Daniel Peterson wrote:
Scottie wrote:Lets say it was 50 yards. Lets say the plates weighed 30lbs. So? The story is still impossible.

You think it's impossible to carry thirty pounds for fifty yards?

I know you're not this obtuse. You know exactly why it is impossible.

It is impossible to fight off 3 attackers - with weapons, run, jump logs, etc. for fifty yards carrying 30 lbs.
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_Scottie
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Re: Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

Post by _Scottie »

Daniel Peterson wrote:For the fun of it, I just walked fifty yards carrying forty pounds. (I couldn't find a thirty pound weight.)

Although I did it, it's clearly impossible.

Case closed.

Dismiss the witnesses.

What is this straw man about walking fifty yards?? Who ever said that was impossible??
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_Pokatator
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Re: Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

Post by _Pokatator »

Daniel Peterson wrote:For the fun of it, I just walked fifty yards carrying forty pounds. (I couldn't find a thirty pound weight.)

Although I did it, it's clearly impossible.

Case closed.

Dismiss the witnesses.


You did put this on YouTube didn't you? Please give us the link!
I think it would be morally right to lie about your religion to edit the article favorably.
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_Daniel Peterson
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Re: Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Scottie Posterior wrote:What is this straw man about walking fifty yards?? Who ever said that was impossible??

Scottie Prior wrote:Lets say it was 50 yards. Lets say the plates weighed 30lbs. So? The story is still impossible.






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_gramps
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Re: Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

Post by _gramps »

gramps wrote:I received Richard Anderson's book just a bit ago on the three and eight witnesses.

Are testimonies, such as the following, those in which DCP argues we should have confidence? This was from some random page I opened up:

In later life David relived the journey, picturing himself and Oliver on the spring seat of the wagon, with Joseph behind on the board bed. The earliest journal account relates David's story as follows: "And an aged man about 5 feet 10, heavy set and on his back an old fashioned army knapsack strapped over his shoulders and something square in it, and he walked alongside of the wagon and wiped the sweat off his face, smiling very pleasant. David asked him to ride and he replied, 'I am going across to the Hill Cumorah.' Soon after they passed, they felt strange and stopped but could see nothing of him—all around was clear. And they asked the Lord about it. He said that the Prophet looked as white as a sheet and said that it was one of the Nephites, and that he had the plates " 30 In another interview David portrayed the messenger carrying the plates, "about 5 feet 8 or 9 inches tall and heavy set," with "large" face, "a suit of brown woolen clothes, his hair and beard . . . white."



Well,...


Apparently, that Nephite angel had nothing against equality of the sexes, as well:

After the translators had moved into the Whitmer home, Mother Whitmer told David a remarkable episode of the same messenger. "My mother was going to milk the cows, when she was met out near the yard by the same old man (judging by her description of him) who said to her: 'You have been very faithful and diligent in your labors, but you are tried because of the increase of your toil; it is proper therefore that you should receive a witness that your faith may be strengthened.' Thereupon he showed her the plates."
I detest my loose style and my libertine sentiments. I thank God, who has removed from my eyes the veil...
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Re: Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

Post by _TAK »

Daniel Peterson
You're making things up. Nobody said that she "ran around" with anything. They lived in a tiny little house. All she had to do was to move a few feet with the object.

Nor did the object necessarily weigh sixty-five pounds. A common estimate among the witnesses is sixty pounds, and some put it as low as forty.


I didn’t say she was running just that she was strong enough to carry 65 pounds. Whitmer by the way said it was Joseph Smith's mother.. who carried the plates. Strong family – but wait! Maybe its only 40lbs. .. .Yea that’s the ticket!

Do you notice how you have to change the facts to comport with holes in the story?

Edit to add:

DCP
Dogmatic certainty from nearly two centuries after the event Trump's collective and independent eyewitness testimony, repeated over decades, of people who actually saw, touched, and held the object.


Can you provide any proof the relic in this story is the same relic shown the Whitmer family et.al. later?
Last edited by Maureen on Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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_marg

Re: Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

Post by _marg »

I can't keep track and remember Mormon stories about various events, there are so many variations.

Other than J. Smith who claimed to have seen golden plates with normal eyes/eyesight (not spiritual, not atypical) with nothing covering up/hiding the plates?
_Scottie
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Re: Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

Post by _Scottie »

Daniel Peterson wrote:
Scottie Posterior wrote:What is this straw man about walking fifty yards?? Who ever said that was impossible??

Scottie Prior wrote:Lets say it was 50 yards. Lets say the plates weighed 30lbs. So? The story is still impossible.

And I said "walk"....where, exactly???
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman

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Re: Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

Post by _moksha »

Daniel Peterson wrote:For the fun of it, I just walked fifty yards carrying forty pounds. (I couldn't find a thirty pound weight.)

Although I did it, it's clearly impossible.



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