Islam in the United States, with Mormons

[_cksalmon]

There are two "houses" in Islam: the dar al-Islam and the dar al-Harb: the house of war. America is in the house of war for chapel Muslims. Radical Islam ("chapel Islam") is bent on world domination via the sword. Submission or death. That's not my idiosyncratic, fundamentalistic "Christian" perspective: that's the perspective of Arab watchers on the vanguard of Western civilization. Secular and otherwise.

I should make it clear, Chris, that I'm far from being an apologist for Islam. Most of my Muslim friends are "secular" Muslims, though I do talk to devout Muslims as well. I am perhaps a bit naïve in regard to the motives of radicals, primarily because they have no hold here in Oz, and as soon as their ugly head appears they are ferreted out by the Federal Police and either jailed or deported. Female circumcision is also banned in Oz (not sure about the US), and attempts to make polygamy legal have been quashed.

I'm not sure what freedoms/privileges Muslims have in America, nor how far they are allowed to practice "traditional beliefs".

The Muslims in Indonesia also seem to be under control. In Turkey the burka was banned under a secular government.

Turkey eases ban on headscarves.

by the way, I know heaps of Turkish Muslims. One said to me the other night that he was going to enjoy his days off with a BBQ and beer.

I hear you, Ray. I should also make it clear from my end that I am no radical crusader against Islam. My primary, foundational set of scriptural texts is New Testament. Violence against oppression is utterly absent therein. Period.

My perspective is, indeed, proleptic and merely observatory at this point. But there is no crime in watching, wide-eyed.

I am very much concerned with developments in UK, my country's alma mater, as it were.

See here: http://www.wntube.net/play.php?vid=155.

cks

[_bcspace]

I know it ain't PC, PaulO, but I don't care. I don't like Islam at all, either.

The other day, I was in Target and a Muslim couple came in the door as I was leaving. He was dressed comfortably and casually in the Oklahoma heat, but his wife was covered from head to toe in black--the only things showing were her hands and her eyes. I was wearing a tank top and that nasty man was leering at my boobs while his lovely wife was walking around hidden from the world. I actually had to restrain myself from kicking him in the shins. I was filled with loathing for him. He disgusted me.

Ugh. Muslim mysogynists.

I get it. By your example, you're saying Muslim women should dress so that other men can leer at their boobs too.

[_Mary]

I am very much concerned with developments in UK, my country's alma mater, as it were.

See here: http://www.wntube.net/play.php?vid=155.

I think that the guy at the end (I remember watching this a while ago), got it right when he said that there are a certain group of Saudi clerics that are trying to radicalise Muslim youth and people.

I don't see this around the rest of the country though there may be hot beds of such activity in places like Birmingham.

There are certainly plenty of reasonable Muslims voices in the UK to counteract the more radical tendencies.

I think that the biggest problem that Islam has is not that children will be radicalised in the UK, but that they will adopt some of the more questionable (in their view) Western Ways in terms of promiscuity, drug taking, immodest clothing, marriage to non muslims etc. I think this is the biggest problem...ie losing their kids rather than radicalising them.

They are still in a minority after all.

I was reading an article on Shariah law here and its use by devout muslims. That also brings up some interesting issues in terms of the equality of women.

[_KimberlyAnn]

I know it ain't PC, PaulO, but I don't care. I don't like Islam at all, either.

The other day, I was in Target and a Muslim couple came in the door as I was leaving. He was dressed comfortably and casually in the Oklahoma heat, but his wife was covered from head to toe in black--the only things showing were her hands and her eyes. I was wearing a tank top and that nasty man was leering at my boobs while his lovely wife was walking around hidden from the world. I actually had to restrain myself from kicking him in the shins. I was filled with loathing for him. He disgusted me.

Ugh. Muslim mysogynists.

I get it. By your example, you're saying Muslim women should dress so that other men can leer at their boobs too.

My tank top wasn't immodest. It was cute. It was also fitting for the weather.

I wasn't angry that a man was leering at my boobs. It's impolite, but men do it all the time no matter what I wear. They leer at my boobs when I wear turtlenecks. I can't really blame them. I love my boobs, too!

No, what ticked me off was that the Muslim man obviously and unabashedly enjoyed checking me out while his wife was being hidden under a long black burka.

KA

[_bcspace]

I wasn't angry that a man was leering at my boobs. It's impolite, but men do it all the time no matter what I wear. They leer at my boobs when I wear turtlenecks. I can't really blame them. I love my boobs, too!

No, what ticked me off was that the Muslim man obviously and unabashedly enjoyed checking me out while his wife was being hidden under a long black burka.

Those two statements are in conflict and the only way to reconcile them is to say that you want men to be able to leer at Muslim women's boobs too.

You also make the implicit assumption that the woman is being forced to wear the burka. While I consider the whole of Islam to be a terrorist and backwards religion, such assumptions are often erroneous.

[_KimberlyAnn]

I wasn't angry that a man was leering at my boobs. It's impolite, but men do it all the time no matter what I wear. They leer at my boobs when I wear turtlenecks. I can't really blame them. I love my boobs, too!

No, what ticked me off was that the Muslim man obviously and unabashedly enjoyed checking me out while his wife was being hidden under a long black burka.

Those two statements are in conflict and the only way to reconcile them is to say that you want men to be able to leer at Muslim women's boobs too.

You also make the implicit assumption that the woman is being forced to wear the burka. While I consider the whole of Islam to be a terrorist and backwards religion, such assumptions are often erroneous.

Any woman, Muslim or no, should be able to wear what she wants, so long as she's not breaking any decency laws. Any man should be able to do the same.

I didn't make the assumption that the woman was forced to wear the burka. She could well have chosen to wear it. I think she should have that right, however any religion that encourages the covering of women to such an oppressive extent is vile and misogynistic (and in the case of Islam, violent, murderous and evil.) I also believe that any man who thinks women should be hidden in burkas has no business leering at other women's breasts, especially in view of his covered wife. Is it that Muslim men believe women should be covered because Muslim men are incapable of controlling themselves?

I hope that hidden Islamic woman checked out the package of every man in Target.

KA

[_Paul Osborne]

I hope that hidden Islamic woman checked out the package of every man in Target.

Makes me wonder what piggish Muslim men force their women to do in bed. They must be pigs -- Men who like to have control over women in unatural ways. Wrapping up women in bags is just evil.

I hate the Islamic religion. I mean, I HATE it! I would to God that Christ would return soon and burn Islam to the ground. It is a thorn in the flesh of Israel and the restoration of the gospel.

You won't get political correct crap from me. Islam is antiChrist!

Paul O

[_KimberlyAnn]

I hope that hidden Islamic woman checked out the package of every man in Target.

Makes me wonder what piggish Muslim men force their women to do in bed. They must be pigs -- Men who like to have control over women in unatural ways. Wrapping up women in bags is just evil.

I hate the Islamic religion. I mean, I HATE it! I would to God that Christ would return soon and burn Islam to the ground. It is a thorn in the flesh of Israel and the restoration of the gospel.

You won't get political correct crap from me. Islam is antiChrist!

Paul O

Paul, I feel many of the things the Mormon church encourages women to do is also misogynistic.

Mormonism, to a lesser extent than Islam, to be sure, dictates what folks ought to wear. I wore garments and not because I felt they were pretty. As a Mormon woman I veiled my face in the temple. As a Mormon woman I was denied the priesthood.

I feel Mormonism has a pretty big mote in its own eye when it comes to the way it treats women.

KA

[_Paul Osborne]

KimberlyAnn,

Would you rather live in Utah or Iraq?

How do the Taliban compare with Mormon leaders? I think there is a big difference. Mormonism in Utah is a religion one is free to live or not live. But the Taliban will grab you and wrap you in a bag and beat you if you don't do exactly what the man says. Wouldn't you rather sit in the temple in honorable temple robes being told you will be a queen than wonder about in a birka as a sex slave to a Muslim pig?

Paul O

[_KimberlyAnn]

KimberlyAnn,

Would you rather live in Utah or Iraq?

How do the Taliban compare with Mormon leaders? I think there is a big difference. Mormonism in Utah is a religion one is free to live or not live. But the Taliban will grab you and wrap you in a bag and beat you if you don't do exactly what the man says. Wouldn't you rather sit in the temple in honorable temple robes being told you will be a queen than wonder about in a birka as a sex slave to a Muslim pig?

Paul O

I'd rather live in neither.

Yes, Islam is much worse than Mormonism, but both are misogynistic to differing degrees.

Men other than members of the Taliban beat women when they don't obey. Mormon men. Christian men. I think most folks would agree that the Taliban are "pigs." But abuse isn't exclusive to them. Unfortunately.

KA