just me wrote: It also doesn't get you what Christian grace gets you...to be with God again.
So,is a habitual murderer with god because of grace and mercy? And if this habitual murderer asks for forgiveness and murders again, and dies, he or she is with god because of mercy and grace?
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Jason Bourne wrote:What I bolded above is utter nonsense. I think the people who tell you this are the typical internet apologist type. My former SP used to say that Mormon Guilt has good old Catholic Guilt beat any day of the week. He said this in reference to a study that LDS youth and Evangelicals have less behavior that is considered immoral. But EVs when the sin get over it quicker. Mormons struggle with guilt.
As a bishop I often had members complain about guilt and the heaviness they still felt for prior sins. I was often thanked for the emphasis I placed on grace and mercy.
Anyone who has read MoF knows that the Church lays lots of guilt on a person and that makes it tough to move past. Why do people think Robinson's Believing Christ and Following Christ as well as books like the Peacegiver were such hits in the LDS readership world? Because they focused on true mercy, forgiveness and grace.
It's a little discouraging to me how this has played out in this thread. I've been told over and over that I'm the exception, that Mormons generally don't feel the same guilt I did. Now I find out that, statistically speaking, I'm not alone, and what do I get?
I'm being deceptive, guilt is good, I'm calling elders liars and masturbators, and so on. Finding out I am not alone in being burdened with guilt is important to me, and I'm trying to understand why we feel the guilt. I appreciate you talking about why instead of simply dismissing what I think and feel.
just me wrote:Hmmm, I wonder why Mormons feel so much more guilt than everyone else...
Because they know the truth and the truth is: try not to sin and if one does, ask for forgiveness and try not to commit the same sin. Also, they love god and since god stresses to live the commandments, one may feel remorse or bad for not doing so.
However, you can join the UU church. They seem to be quite loose with sin.
Other Christians don't love god?
The guilt thing isn't helping Mormons to live better lives. It is, however, propping up the pharmaceutical industry. So there's that.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
just me wrote: It also doesn't get you what Christian grace gets you...to be with God again.
So,is a habitual murderer with god because of grace and mercy? And if this habitual murderer asks for forgiveness and murders again, and dies, he or she is with god because of mercy and grace?
Are you saying that Moses can't be forgiven?
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
Drifting wrote:Stem, the dichotomy is in the final destination. Can you return to live with your Heavenly Father on grace alone or do you in fact have to do all the things necessary to be worthy of a temple recommend?
That question is loaded. Indeed in context I don't know if it makes much sense at all. The point here is grace and if its taught by LDS or if its radically de-emphasized. Runtu says yes and in saying that he says guilt is overly emphasized or something, or he objects to the concept of guilt altogether.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
Buffalo wrote:In Mormonism you don't get anything desirable from Grace. Grace gets you into places no Mormon wants to go.
I've known many a Mormon that would say if they receive the Terrestrial or Telestial glory they will happily embrace that. And, to be true, this is merely distraction anyway. Afterall grace is given to all in LDS teaching, as opposed to only some in the traditional Christian teaching.
While it's true that grace is distributed more equitably in Mormonism, it's also less meaningfull. It's the consolation prize. Christ doesn't get you there. You have to do it by the sweat of your brow.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
In LDS teaching every individual is saved eternally and granted heavenly eternal existence in a degre of glory thanks to the grace of God.
In traditional Christian teaching not all people will be saved eternally and granted heavenly eternal existence in a degree of glory thanks to the grace of God.
It seems to me your point has backfired on you. Grace is far more extensive and far more pervasive for LDS teaching than for the traditional Christian teaching.
I think this is the problem here: You see this thread as an attack on the church, whereas I am trying to understand where the guilt comes from. Not your guilt, but mine, which apparently a lot of Mormons feel, if the study is correct (and I don't see a reason to believe otherwise).
I'm not interested in scoring points, whether they "backfire" or not. I'm trying to understand something that has played a huge role in my life. If that offends you, I am sorry.
Are you kidding. I recall the coolness of joking about Masturbatin among a group of fellas back in college. Some folks don't want to come off as prudes. that's just how we all are. Sometimes guilt causes us to lie and sometimes peer pressure does the same thing.
That's just bizarre, stem. Peer pressure from total strangers at a lecture? Really?
Interesting point about lack of peer pressure from strangers. Perhaps that would skew the results in the other direction--people who pretend to be religious in daily life among friends and family are emboldened to tacitly admit they're fakers?
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO