Why did Brigham Young believe Adam was God?

[_Nightlion]

How many more times.....Oh Lord!

Joseph Smith told Brigham Young that Adam and Eve are the parents of our spirit bodies. That is true doctrine. That is what the creation scriptures show.
Brigham took that and ran with it. Brigham was an idiot. EOS

For anyone who want to know REAL Mormon theology according to the LDS Standard Works please get this PDF file.
http://freepdfhosting.com/d905b12b55.pdf

[_moksha]

So no, Adam-God never was doctrine.

So Orson Pratt argued with Brigham Young over nothing? They should have spent that arguing energy fishing on the Provo River instead!

I think the Adam-God non-doctrine was a direct offshoot from Polygamy Theology, just like the necessity of God having a body if the pleasures of the flesh were going be found in the Celestial Kingdom.

[_Nightlion]

Bump so in the morning someone will read my post. Unless Moksha takes me off again.

[_SteelHead]

Young's Adam-God teaching was immediately controversial. Young had ample opportunity to explain any sort of misunderstandings that may have existed, but there does not seem to be any record of him doing so.

.........

If Young intended to teach somehing like Adam Sr./Adam Jr., he could have simply explained it to Pratt. Instead, Young essentially told him to stop trying to make sense out of it and just accept it as revealed truth.

Probably the strongest argument against Adam Sr./Jr. And it is attractive because it's easy and quick. But it's importance pales in comparison with the fact that many of BY's statements in and around the cherry-picked ones in favor of Adam God are in direct conflict with the notion as well as the fact that BY would have to had to have rejected or forgotten multiple critical doctrines, some revealed directly by Joseph Smith prior.

Why would BY teach something in direct conflict with other revelations? It does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.

[_consiglieri]

Yes, that is the same Adam (Sr) who is the Father of our spirits and who coming to earth, partook of the physical fruits so as to produce with his wife, the physical bodies of the Adam (Jr) and Eve who partook of the forbidden fruit. Adam being a name title in the former case.

Thank you for bringing up this interesting point, BCSpace.

When Elden Watson opined the existence of Adam Sr./Adam Jr. in order to reconcile Brigham's teachings with current Mormon Doctrine, he was inadvertently forced to add a new and novel doctrine.

It is clear from BY quotes already mentioned that Adam came to this earth as a resurrected being with Eve (one of his wives), partook of the fruit of the tree to become mortal, and began the process of begetting physical bodies for his spirit children begotten in the premortal existence.

Elden Watson says that this "Adam" is actually referring to Elohim.

In spite of the fact there is no basis for this extrapolation, it leads inexorably to the idea that Elohim came to this world as a resurrected being with one of his wives, and that Elohim (and his wife) partook of the fruit of the tree to become mortal, and that Elohim (and his wife) then begot a physical son and a physical daughter. These two children were Adam (Jr.) and Eve (Jr.) respectively. This "second" Adam and Eve then got busy and began having mortal children, like Cain, Able and Seth.

Guess what? Nobody ever taught this.

But it is a necessary corrolary to Elden Watson's Adam Sr./Adam Jr. theory.

The fact is Elden Watson-ites like BCSpace feel it is better to create this new doctrine out of whole cloth rather than take Brigham Young at his word and have him out of sync with modern Mormon Doctrine.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_consiglieri]

I think the Adam-God non-doctrine was a direct offshoot from Polygamy Theology, just like the necessity of God having a body if the pleasures of the flesh were going be found in the Celestial Kingdom.

This is an interesting proposition, Moksha. Once we come to terms with the fact Brigham Young taught the Adam-God Theory, we can discuss interesting ideas like this. As long as we are busy doing anything we can to deny the obvious truth of Brigham Young's teaching, we will never be able to progress in knowledge.

Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were all about advancing our knowledge in things spiritual. Since their time, however, the goal changed to limiting our knowledge and restricting it to what came to become correlated Mormon doctrine; to set up stakes to our learning and say, "Hitherto shalt thou come and no further."

Joseph Smith (and the Book of Mormon!) encouraged us to seek deeper into the mysteries of God, a quest proscribed by the current Mormon Church.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_Drifting]

Yes, that is the same Adam (Sr) who is the Father of our spirits and who coming to earth, partook of the physical fruits so as to produce with his wife, the physical bodies of the Adam (Jr) and Eve who partook of the forbidden fruit. Adam being a name title in the former case.

Thank you for bringing up this interesting point, BCSpace.

When Elden Watson opined the existence of Adam Sr./Adam Jr. in order to reconcile Brigham's teachings with current Mormon Doctrine, he was inadvertently forced to add a new and novel doctrine.

It is clear from BY quotes already mentioned that Adam came to this earth as a resurrected being with Eve (one of his wives), partook of the fruit of the tree to become mortal, and began the process of begetting physical bodies for his spirit children begotten in the premortal existence.

Elden Watson says that this "Adam" is actually referring to Elohim.

In spite of the fact there is no basis for this extrapolation, it leads inexorably to the idea that Elohim came to this world as a resurrected being with one of his wives, and that Elohim (and his wife) partook of the fruit of the tree to become mortal, and that Elohim (and his wife) then begot a physical son and a physical daughter. These two children were Adam (Jr.) and Eve (Jr.) respectively. This "second" Adam and Eve then got busy and began having mortal children, like Cain, Able and Seth.

Guess what? Nobody ever taught this.

But it is a necessary corrolary to Elden Watson's Adam Sr./Adam Jr. theory.

The fact is Elden Watson-ites like BCSpace feel it is better to create this new doctrine out of whole cloth rather than take Brigham Young at his word and have him out of sync with modern Mormon Doctrine.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

So, if Adam Jr and Eve Jr were produced the same way that Drifting Jr and Drinftingess Jr were, didn't they have to commit incest to produce Cain and Abel?

from LDS.org

Sexual Immorality

See also Adultery; Fornication; Sensual, Sensuality.

Willful participation in adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, incest, or any other unholy, unnatural, or impure sexual activity.

[_Bret Ripley]

...If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.

<applause>

[_consiglieri]

I will add another item of interest to me, that being the aspects of Brigham Young's Adam-God Theory that persist in today's Church.

How many Mormons (or former Mormons) have heard it said that God came to Eve and begot the body of Jesus by physical relations? Talmage said it (in notably oblique language) in Jesus the Christ. Bruce R. McConkie picked up on it in Mormon Doctrine, which is especially interesting since he was also famous for denouncing the Adam-God Theory and proclaiming anybody who believed it would go to hell--I believe his line was that Satan keeps this teaching alive, and that those who believed it did not deserve to be saved. (Nice touch, Bruce.)

And how many have heard in the LDS Church that Adam was formed from the dust of the earth, but not the dust of this earth?

Another holdover from the Adam-God Theory.

How many have heard the question asked in Church as to whether Adam had a belly button?

A question that would not be asked if it weren't for Brigham Young's Adam-God Theory.

Are there any other examples posters can think of?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

P.S. I see Brigham Young being rebuffed in his teaching of the Adam-God Theory, and so he backed off it a bit, not repudiating it, but saying he didn't care a whole lot about whether people believed it.

This is what he said publicly.

Behind the scenes, he was working hard in the last year of his life (1877) to make sure his Adam-God Theory was enshrined for posterity in the lecture at the veil of the St. George Temple. (It is unknown whether this was carried over into other temples.)

What is known is that Brigham's lecture at the veil was silently removed by Joseph F. Smith in 1904 or 1905.

But vestiges of Brigham's lecture at the veil remained, as well.

Until 1990, those who received the lecture at the veil in every LDS temple were advised that the creation account was "purely figurative insofar as the man and the woman are concerned."

We also heard the emphasis that eternal life is to know God, the Father, and his Son Jesus Christ, whom he has sent. (John 14:3)

This was a scripture emphasized by Brigham Young in conjunction with his belief that it was critical to eternal life to understand the true identity of God as being Adam.

[_consiglieri]

So, if Adam Jr and Eve Jr were produced the same way that Drifting Jr and Drinftingess Jr were, didn't they have to commit incest to produce Cain and Abel?

Incest is best.


Elden Watson and his disciple, BCSpace, consider this a small price to pay to bring Brigham back into the fold.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri