Scientific Conclusions

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_Chap
_Emeritus
Posts: 14190
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:23 am

Re: Scientific Conclusions

Post by _Chap »

MrStakhanovite wrote:
beefcalf wrote:That's the general conclusion I've arrived at, as well.

I would not parse this conversation through marg, she’s way too far out of her element to do much but make bad points.

Fact is you couldn’t defend your scientific worldview for squat. You provided no way to parse one theory from another, and basically conceded you couldn’t. The only thing you’ve managed to do is the tired old apologist tactic, “Well I can’t really make coherent sense of Church doctrine, but by golly, the Church has survived, helped millions of people and flourished, so it must be true.”

Oh, and you complained about the value of logic, using a complex string of symbols governed by logical rules. Good job sport!


beefcalf wrote:Do you realize how much more effective you would be at persuading people to see things the way you see them if you weren't always trying so hard to be a jerk?

Dude, people disagree with each other. How many ad hominems have you hurled at Seth and Chap and me simply because we see things differently? 'Sport', 'Dawkfag', 'midgets in the LDS Lollipop guild'.

You know what would make MDB a little better? If Stak and his nasty attitude took a hike.

You know what would make MDB a lot better? If Stak stuck around and used his knowledge of logic and philosophy to expand our collective understanding, and tossed the nasty attitude out the window.

Just sayin'


Mr. S. is quite intelligent enough to know that he is unlikely to persuade his opponents by abusing them.

One can only conclude, therefore, that his habitual mode of expression is chosen to satisfy other needs more important to him than winning assent.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Hoops
_Emeritus
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Re: Scientific Conclusions

Post by _Hoops »

Your guyses criticism of Stak is so laughably hypocritical that... well, I'm at a loss.

Not only do you not fairly describe Stak, but you don't even represent yourselves fairly.
_MrStakhanovite
_Emeritus
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Re: Scientific Conclusions

Post by _MrStakhanovite »

beefcalf wrote:Do you realize how much more effective you would be at persuading people to see things the way you see them if you weren't always trying so hard to be a jerk?


Yeah, I’m not an educator and I don’t have the patience to repost the same idea five times in the hopes you get it. You don’t take the time to be charitable to theists, so I’m not going to take the time to pander to your feelings.

beefcalf wrote:How many ad hominems have you hurled at Seth and Chap and me simply because we see things differently? 'Sport', 'Dawkfag', 'midgets in the LDS Lollipop guild'.


Name calling isn’t ad hom. I don’t care about the disagreement; I’m tired of your unwarranted dismissive attitudes to complex problems. Mormons are scarce; most other Theists won’t bother to talking to most Dawkfags here, so I decided to call you out.

You weren’t going to change your narrow mind anyways, no matter how gently I prodded; the least I can do is call it how I see on the public record.
_MCB
_Emeritus
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Re: Scientific Conclusions

Post by _MCB »

most other Theists won’t bother to talking to most Dawkfags
LOL Dawkfags-- <rolls eyes> Stak, is that sarcasm dripping from your fingertips? Are you, perhaps, angry?
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
_Chap
_Emeritus
Posts: 14190
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:23 am

Re: Scientific Conclusions

Post by _Chap »

Mr. S. believes in a deity? If I ever noticed that, I had forgotten about it. Maybe I have skipped too many of his posts in the past.

If this is the correct interpretation of his latest post, I wonder what his taste in deities is? Abrahamic? And if so, which variety?

Does he worship it, pray to it, or just argue with people about it?
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Ceeboo
_Emeritus
Posts: 7625
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:58 am

Re: Scientific Conclusions

Post by _Ceeboo »

Hoops wrote:Your guyses criticism of Stak is so laughably hypocritical that... well, I'm at a loss.

Not only do you not fairly describe Stak, but you don't even represent yourselves fairly.



Ding Ding Ding!!!!!!!

BINGO!

We have a winner!

Peace,
Ceeboo
_MCB
_Emeritus
Posts: 4078
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:14 pm

Re: Scientific Conclusions

Post by _MCB »

Stak is a work in progress.
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
_Ceeboo
_Emeritus
Posts: 7625
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:58 am

Re: Scientific Conclusions

Post by _Ceeboo »

MCB wrote:Stak is a work in progress.


Aren't we all. :)

by the way: Wouldn't it be simply gorgeous to have Stak among the body of believers? (Can't wait!)


Peace,
Ceeboo
_beefcalf
_Emeritus
Posts: 1232
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:40 pm

Re: Scientific Conclusions

Post by _beefcalf »

MrStakhanovite wrote:
beefcalf wrote:Do you realize how much more effective you would be at persuading people to see things the way you see them if you weren't always trying so hard to be a jerk?


Yeah, I’m not an educator and I don’t have the patience to repost the same idea five times in the hopes you get it. You don’t take the time to be charitable to theists, so I’m not going to take the time to pander to your feelings.

beefcalf wrote:How many ad hominems have you hurled at Seth and Chap and me simply because we see things differently? 'Sport', 'Dawkfag', 'midgets in the LDS Lollipop guild'.


Name calling isn’t ad hom. I don’t care about the disagreement; I’m tired of your unwarranted dismissive attitudes to complex problems. Mormons are scarce; most other Theists won’t bother to talking to most Dawkfags here, so I decided to call you out.

You weren’t going to change your narrow mind anyways, no matter how gently I prodded; the least I can do is call it how I see on the public record.


It is a matter of record that I can and have changed my mind. You make a good point, however, in pointing out what you see as my resistance to changing my mind. It took some twenty years of full immersion in Mormonism for me to finally stop and analyze what it was I believed. And when I was faced with overwhelmingly persuasive, but disconcerting and deeply troubling evidence, evidence which clearly pointed to a difficult road ahead, I chose not to stick my head in the sand. Instead, I let the evidence lead me to some unpleasant conclusions. So, yeah, I understand your observation that I won't change my mind, but rest assured that I am committed to going where the evidence takes me.

I reject (tentatively) your apparent notion that logic is a tool for obtaining useful truths, because I have run across just enough examples of logical paradoxes which don't square with reality. I can outrun a tortoise with ease. Yet a logic argument was put forward to tell me that I cannot. And that logical paradox which attempts to tell me that I cannot outrun a tortoise seems not to have ever been disproven rigorously. Not for 2500 years. Why should I place my absolute trust in logic as a system for obtaining knowledge when i can clearly see that it fails in at least some instances?

And your whole 'You guys are being mean to the theists, so I'm gonna be mean to you' thing seems kinda... immature. I strive to be someone who deals with the merits of ideas, not someone who attempts to win by intimidation or scorn. If you have specific examples of me acting uncharitably to theists, pointing them out to me will help me avoid that behavior in the future (this goes for you as well, hoops).

ETA: I've added a new thread where you can contribute these observations...
eschew obfuscation

"I'll let you believers in on a little secret: not only is the LDS church not really true, it's obviously not true." -Sethbag
_Some Schmo
_Emeritus
Posts: 15602
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:59 pm

Re: Scientific Conclusions

Post by _Some Schmo »

Hoops wrote:Your guyses criticism of Stak is so laughably hypocritical that... well, I'm at a loss.

Not only do you not fairly describe Stak, but you don't even represent yourselves fairly.

When you attempt to massage Stak's prostate, does he swat your hand out of the way so he can do it himself, or is he more gentle?
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
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