The Light of Christ

[_Kishkumen]

What man made religion could come up with such glorious truths?!?

What is a God-made religion? What are you implying about mankind? They are too stupid to dream up wonderful, amazing, and dreadful ideas?

Well said, zeez.

[_thews]

Hogwash! You are so blinded by hate and prejudice that you can't see clearly!

What I can do is write a sentence that doesn't end every time with an exclamation point! I can think critically! I understand that Joseph Smith seer stones are occult objects! I understand that the pagan book of the dead incorrectly translated doesn't bring Christian doctrine! I understand that the Kinderhook plates were translated by Joseph Smith were a known hoax! What you don't understand gdemetz, is the truth, and that because you're not capable.

[_gdemetz]

Thews, it's funny that you would quote that, and I would imagine that you believe in the virgin birth (see no exclamation mark - I can do that also). Is that sound doctrine? LOL! What man made doctrines can you think of to compare with those received by the LDS prophets?

[_SteelHead]

Gd
I would say that learning that boiling water makes it safe to drink beats all of the health advice in the WoW.

[_thews]

Thews, it's funny that you would quote that, and I would imagine that you believe in the virgin birth (see no exclamation mark - I can do that also). Is that sound doctrine? LOL! What man made doctrines can you think of to compare with those received by the LDS prophets?

You just don't get it gdemetz. You've been taught to accept parallel arguments for what doesn't make sense, and when you post your boorish exclamation points and "LOL" retorts it exemplifies just how blind and brainwashed you truly are. What you don't do is acknowledge the facts, and that's because the facts prove Joseph Smith was a fraud. Let me list some facts for you that I'm sure you won't acknowledge:

1) Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon using occult seer stones he owned before the supposed angels appeared to him through a stove-pipe hat. The first seer stone was found by looking through the green stone of a necromancer (Sally Chase).

2) The "first" vision has so many versions you must accept the version you're told to accept while rejecting the previous versions.

3) The Book of Abraham is an absolute farce and has nothing to do with the pagan documents the LDS church hides from you... nothing.

4) Polygamy is a requirement in the Joseph Smith version of heaven and anyone (according to the D&C) who rejects it will be damned.

5) LDS doctrine is racist and there is no doubt about that. While they will tell you that "dark" doesn't mean skin color, if you accept that then why were the rules changed in 1978? It does mean skin color... wake up.

6) The Kinderhook plates (a known hoax) were translated by Joseph Smith... how do you rationalize this?

In summation gdemetz, you are not intellectually capable of comprehending these facts, because you don't acknowledge them. The reason you don't is because you blindly do and believe what you're told to believe. So sad... critical thought isn't part of your thought process, but that's how a cult operates. I doubt anyone who was brainwashed knew they were brainwashed. If you'd like to acknowledge the above facts without a bunch of tired parallel arguments and rhetoric, I'd love to hear how you've come to grips with these facts... as they are facts and not some "anti" propaganda as you've been instructed to believe. Jesus Christ has zero to do with Mormonism, as Christians reject Joseph Smith as a false prophet of God based on the facts.

[_gdemetz]

You're a troll Thews, and I won't wast much time here with your ridiculous points, but I will mention one to show you how dumb they are. You say the church is racists. I say it is not, and that it merely follows inspiration from God. That's why the church revoked it's prior restriction on blacks having the priesthood blessings. God has a purpose in giving and withholding blessings for people, and His reasons are way over the head of someone like you! Do you believe that God is a racists for withholding blessings from the gentiles for so many centuries? If you had lived during Christ's time, and you heard him refer to the gentiles as dogs, you would have accused Him of being a racists also! I believe that with all my heart! Why do I say that? I say that because I don't believe that you have even a tiny bit of the Spirit in you, instead, you have the spirit of hate and contention which is very obvious from your posts.

"And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven; now is come salvation and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ, for the ACCUSER of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."

[_Drifting]

You're a troll Thews, and I won't wast much time here with your ridiculous points, but I will mention one to show you how dumb they are. You say the church is racists. I say it is not, and that it merely follows inspiration from God. That's why the church revoked it's prior restriction on blacks having the priesthood blessings. God has a purpose in giving and withholding blessings for people, and His reasons are way over the head of someone like you! Do you believe that God is a racists for withholding blessings from the gentiles for so many centuries? If you had lived during Christ's time, and you heard him refer to the gentiles as dogs, you would have accused Him of being a racists also! I believe that with all my heart! Why do I say that? I say that because I don't believe that you have even a tiny bit of the Spirit in you, instead, you have the spirit of hate and contention which is very obvious from your posts.

"And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven; now is come salvation and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ, for the ACCUSER of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."

I thought the Church had already come out an officially renounced the initial ban on black people because it didn't know why it had been introduced in the first place, nor do they know if it was God's doing or not. How can you be so sure about something that the Lords Anointed have not the first clue about?

[_thews]

You're a troll Thews, and I won't wast much time here with your ridiculous points, but I will mention one to show you how dumb they are.

Translation: You're completely correct in stating facts that I won't acknowledge, and the reason I won't is because I can't. To hide the fact that I can't acknowledge the truth, I'll use "ridiculous" in a poor attempt to hide the fact I've acknowledged nothing, and call you a name to show how immature I am.

You say the church is racists.

I'll assume what you meant was "racist" in the above.

I say it is not, and that it merely follows inspiration from God. That's why the church revoked it's prior restriction on blacks having the priesthood blessings.

So, your argument that LDS church is not racist is because they revoked "its" prior restriction on blacks? You forgot to mention that the Book of Mormon changed from "White and delightsome" to "Pure and delightsome" even though God would not permit Joseph Smith to continue translating through his occult rock unless the words were correct. In other words, the Mormon God screwed up twice... so, um, they aren't a racist religion anymore?

Want to know what I can do that you can't... back up what I say with actual factual data:

http://mormonthink.com/blackweb.htm

Doctrine supported by LDS Scriptures.
2 Nephi 5: 21

'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'
Alma 3: 6

'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'
2 Nephi 30: 6

"...their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and a delightsome people."
NOTE: THE TERM 'WHITE' WAS CHANGED TO 'PURE' IN 1981.
3 Nephi 2:15

"And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites."
Jacob 3: 5, 8-9

5 Behold, the Lamanites your brethren, whom ye hate because of their filthiness and the cursing which hath come upon their skins, are more righteous than you; for they have not forgotten the commandment of the Lord, which was given unto our father—that they should have save it were one wife, and concubines they should have none, and there should not be whoredoms committed among them.

8 O my brethren, I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought with them before the throne of God.
9 Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, which is the word of God, that ye revile no more against them because of the darkness of their skins; neither shall ye revile against them because of their filthiness; but ye shall remember your own filthiness, and remember that their filthiness came because of their fathers.
Moses 7:22

And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them.
Abraham 1:21-24,27

Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth.
From this descent sprang all the Egyptians, and thus the blood of the Canaanites was preserved in the land.
The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden;
When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land.
Now, Pharaoh being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood, notwithstanding the Pharaohs would fain claim it from Noah, through Ham, therefore my father was led away by their idolatry;

Official LDS Church Publications Explain Racist LDS Scriptures:

"The Book of Abraham is rich both in doctrine and in historical incidents. Of the latter the fact of the large influence (if not identity) of Egyptian religious ideas in Chaldea in the days of Abraham is established; the descent of the black race (Negro) from Cain, the first murderer; the preservation of that race through the flood by the wife of Ham--"Egyptus," which in the Chaldean signifies "Egypt," "which signifies that which is forbidden"--the descendants of "Egyptus" were cursed as pertaining to the priesthood--that is, they were barred from holding that divine power; the origin also of the Egyptians--these things, together with the account of Abraham migrating from Chaldea to Egypt, constitute the chief historical items that are contained in the book.
- Comprehensive History of the Church, Vol.2, Ch.47, Pg.128


"Their skin is quite black, their hair woolly and black, their intelligence stunted, and they appear never to have arisen from the most savage state of barbarism."
- The Juvenile Instructor, Vol. 3, page 157


"Is or is it not apparent from reason and analogy as drawn from a careful reading of the Scriptures, that God causes the saints, or people that fall away from his church to be cursed in time, with a black skin? Was or was not Cain, being marked, obliged to inherit the curse, he and his children, forever? And if so, as Ham, like other sons of God, might break the rule of God, by marrying out of the church, did or did he not, have a Canaanite wife, whereby some of the black seed was preserved through the flood, and his son, Canaan, after he laughed at his grandfather's nakedness, heired three curses: one from Cain for killing Abel; one from Ham for marrying a black wife, and one from Noah for ridiculing what God had respect for? Are or are not the Indians a sample of marking with blackness for rebellion against God's holy word and holy order? And can or can we not observe in the countenances of almost all nations, except the Gentile, a dark, sallow hue, which tells the sons of God, without a line of history, that they have fallen or changed from the original beauty and grace of father Adam?"
- LDS Messenger and Advocate (Mar 1835) William Phelps "Letter No. 5," Pg.82


"History and common observation show that these predictions have been fulfilled to the letter. The descendants of Ham, besides a black skin which has ever been a curse that has followed an apostate of the holy priesthood, as well as a black heart, have been servants to both Shem and Japheth, and the abolitionists are trying to make void the curse of God, but it will require more power than man possesses to counteract the decrees of eternal wisdom."
- Times and Seasons, Vol.6, Pg.857

God has a purpose in giving and withholding blessings for people, and His reasons are way over the head of someone like you!

Try using some comprehensive argument that doesn't require an exclamation point to imply you've actually said something worth reading. You are only regurgitating the cult mindset of what you're told makes sense, when it clearly doesn't.

Do you believe that God is a racists for withholding blessings from the gentiles for so many centuries?

Note the use of parallel arguments that supposedly negate the fact that Mormon doctrine is racist.

If you had lived during Christ's time, and you heard him refer to the gentiles as dogs, you would have accused Him of being a racists also!

More completely irrelevant lame parallel analogies to attempt to dodge acknowledging the facts.

I believe that with all my heart! Why do I say that?

Because you're brainwashed.

I say that because I don't believe that you have even a tiny bit of the Spirit in you, instead, you have the spirit of hate and contention which is very obvious from your posts.

The "spirit" in me, or anyone else for that matter, is not less than your supposed "spirit" based on your opinion. Mormons see themselves as privileged... better than other faiths. Your condescending holier than thou "spirit" lives only in your brainwashed head. All I can tell you is that not on single shred of doctrine from Joseph Smith is Christian. If you wish to place faith in the truth claims of Joseph Smith, it's why you can't acknowledge the facts that prove he was a fraud.

"And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven; now is come salvation and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ, for the ACCUSER of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."

http://biblelight.net/false-prophets.htm

2 Tim 4:2 [NIV] Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction.
2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
2 Tim 4:4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

[Guest]

I thought the Church had already come out an officially renounced the initial ban on black people because it didn't know why it had been introduced in the first place, nor do they know if it was God's doing or not. How can you be so sure about something that the Lords Anointed have not the first clue about?

Drifting, perhaps you were not being completely serious here. Unsure of your irony, i will be simple. I have never heard anywhere that the church renounced the ban. Discontinued in 1978 yes, but I know of no official statement declairing that it was wrong or any statement close to that. I have not maintaned Mormon expertise but I have read all sorts of defense of the ban from earnest defenders on a couple of message boards. Some defenders even chow down on that turd of an argument, racism is ok because Jesus was racist. Nobody would eat that except they were backed into a corner and determined to hold to the beauty and propriety of the ban.

Yes it would be simpler to say the ban was wrong but saying the church is wrong on things it worked so diligently to establish, stood for with such pride, and maintained with such determination in the face of criticism, is awkward at best.

[_Tobin]

I thought the Church had already come out an officially renounced the initial ban on black people because it didn't know why it had been introduced in the first place, nor do they know if it was God's doing or not. How can you be so sure about something that the Lords Anointed have not the first clue about?

Drifting, perhaps you were not beingcompletely serious here. Unsure of your irony, i will be simple. I have never heard anywhere that the church renounced the ban. Discontinued in 1978 yes, but I know of no official statement declairing that it was wrong or any statement close to that. I have not maintaned Mormon expertise but I have read all sorts of defense of the ban from ernest defenders on a couple of message boards. Some defenders even chow down on that turd of an argument, racism is ok because Jesus was racist. Nobody would eat that except they were backed into a corner and determined to hold to the beauty and propriety of the ban.

Yes it would be simpler to say the ban was wrong but saying the church is wrong on things it worked so diligently to establish, stood for with such pride, and maintained with such determination in the face of criticism, is awkward at best.

It is only awkward for some here. I maintain it was man-made doctrine and it was evil and the Church should apologize for it.