Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement

[_lulu]

What did joseph get for his fraud

36 women.

[_Fence Sitter]

What did joseph get for his fraud

36 women.

What other options for income and recognition did Joseph Smith have, throughout his life, besides his ability to convince people of his supernatural powers? His alternate choice was only tenant farming, something he knew was not plesant. How many financial failures did the Smiths experience in J.S. childhood? It is obvious, along with the Smith's, that witnesses had financial as well as notoriety motives to maintain their claims. David Whitmer continued to preach the Book of Mormon throughout his life. A better question would be, why would they have motive to deny their fabrication?

[_marg]

If an alleged J. Whitmer quote commonly used to impeach his alleged testimony of the plates is not reliable, does that mean he really saw the plates? It was at that point that I decided I'd better get Anderson.

Well it is understandable why it is evidence which would be ignored by some if it's not reliable. But it still remains what sort of evidence is there outside the Book of Mormon 8 witness statement that would lead one to conclude plates manufactured by Smith & Co even existed. It seems to me if Smith actually had plates manufactured..he would have wanted to show them especially to someone like I. Hale and as well even those 8 witnesses who it is claimed saw them would have outside the Book of Mormon statement talked about them to others...in my opinion.

[_Yoda]

What did joseph get for his fraud

36 women.

LOL!

[_lulu]

Well it is understandable why it is evidence which would be ignored by some if it's not reliable. But it still remains what sort of evidence is there outside the Book of Mormon 8 witness statement that would lead one to conclude plates manufactured by Smith & Co even existed. It seems to me if Smith actually had plates manufactured..he would have wanted to show them especially to someone like I. Hale and as well even those 8 witnesses who it is claimed saw them would have outside the Book of Mormon statement talked about them to others...in my opinion.

Well, I'd like to test the idea that if 11 people saw the plates, it would keep turning up in secondary and terciary sources. "Why I'll never forget grandpa Whitmer gathering us all around the fireplace and telling us again and again of that day in the winter of 1829-30 when he handled the sacred plates."

To my knowledge that sort of think is not out there. But maybe there is something wrong with my knowledge. Maybe it was too sacred to talk about other than the statements themselves and 2 additional references to the spiritual or supernatural.

But I'm wondering if "they never denied it" is enough. As it appears right now, they just never freaken' talked about it.

We'll see.

[_why me]

What did joseph get for his fraud

36 women.

Yep, I am sure that when Joseph was 21 he was thinking of a fraud for him to land some putang with 33 women. Actually, Joseph didn't need the Book of Mormon to land 33 women. And he didn't need such a fraud. He was good-looking and he could have had some fun along the way by just organizing a church and taking his show on the road. Or better yet, not marrying at all and just having sex until he was 38 and then settle down with a nice woman.

[_why me]

John Whitmer's statement:

Theodore Turley Challenges John Whitmer's Testimony of the Golden Plates
John Whitmer reaffirms that he handled the golden plates, despite being associated with an anti-Mormon mob.

Excerpt from "History of the Church, Vol.3"

On the fifth day of April 1839, a company of about fifty men in Daviess county swore that they would never eat or drink, until they had murdered "Joe Smith." Their captain, William Bowman, swore, in the presence of Theodore Turley, that he would "never eat or drink, after he had seen Joe Smith, until he had murdered him." This was the attitude of the men in Daviess and Caldwell Counties.

At this same time Captain Bogart, who was the county judge, a priest, and eight other men, one of them being John Whitmer, came to the room of the committee on removal where they found Theodore Turley. Bogart presented the revelation of July 8, 1838 (Doctrine & Covenants Sec. 118) in which the apostles were directed to leave the saints in Far West on the building site of the Lord's House on the 26th of April 1839, and with a sneer and a vulgar laugh, asked Elder Turley to read it.

Elder Turley said, "Gentlemen, I am well acquainted with it."

They said, "Then you, as a rational man, will have to give up Joseph Smith's being a prophet and an inspired man. He and the twelve are now scattered all over creation; let them come here if they dare; if they do, they will be murdered. As that revelation cannot be fulfilled, you will now give up your faith."

Turley jumped up and said: "In the name of God that revelation will be fulfilled!"

They laughed him to scorn. John Whitmer hung down his head. The Bogart group said, "If they (the apostles) come, they will get murdered; they dare not come to take their leave here; that is like all the rest of Joe Smith's damn prophecies." They then attempted to persuade Elder Turley to do what John Corrill had done, and they said: "He (Corrill) is going to publish a book called 'Mormonism Fairly Delineated!' he is a sensible man, and you had better assist him."

Elder Turley replied: "Gentlemen, I presume there are men here who have heard John Corrill say that 'Mormonism' was true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet, and inspired of God. I now call upon you, John Whitmer. You say Corrill is a moral and a good man; do you believe him when he says the Book of Mormon is true, or when he says it is not true? There are many things published that they say are true, and again turn around and say they are false?"

Whitmer, asked, "Do you hint at me?"

Elder Turley said, "If the cap fits you, wear it; all I know is that you have published to the world that an angel did present those plates to Joseph Smith."

Whitmer replied to this: "I now say, I handled those plates; there were fine engravings on both sides. I handled them." Then he described in the presence of these bitter enemies how the plates were fastened and he said, "they were shown to me by a supernatural power."

After making this statement, Elder Turley asked, "Why is not the translation now true?"

Whitmer answered, "I could not read it (the writing on the plates) and I do not know whether it (the translation) is true or not." Whitmer testified all this in the presence of eight men. This testimony may have been surprising to John Whitmer's companions, but not enough to make any deep impression. They had hailed him, as they did others who had turned away from the Church, as being "brave" and "sensible." Down in their hearts, however, we may wonder if they did not really despise him.


Read how Joseph Smith's prophecy they spoke of was indeed fulfilled.


Source:
History of the Church, Vol.3, Ch.21, p.307
Historical Record, p. 458

[_why me]

Well, I'd like to test the idea that if 11 people saw the plates, it would keep turning up in secondary and terciary sources. "Why I'll never forget grandpa Whitmer gathering us all around the fireplace and telling us again and again of that day in the winter of 1829-30 when he handled the sacred plates."

To my knowledge that sort of think is not out there. But maybe there is something wrong with my knowledge. Maybe it was too sacred to talk about other than the statements themselves and 2 additional references to the spiritual or supernatural.

But I'm wondering if "they never denied it" is enough. As it appears right now, they just never freaken' talked about it.

We'll see.

On their deathbeds many testified of their testimony of the Book of Mormon and what they experienced in front of family and friends.

[_why me]

Well it is understandable why it is evidence which would be ignored by some if it's not reliable. But it still remains what sort of evidence is there outside the Book of Mormon 8 witness statement that would lead one to conclude plates manufactured by Smith & Co even existed. It seems to me if Smith actually had plates manufactured..he would have wanted to show them especially to someone like I. Hale and as well even those 8 witnesses who it is claimed saw them would have outside the Book of Mormon statement talked about them to others...in my opinion.

Well, I'd like to test the idea that if 11 people saw the plates, it would keep turning up in secondary and terciary sources.

We'll see.

It seems that David told his story many times.

http://www.mormonfortress.com/whitmer1.html

David Whitmer left the Mormon church in 1838 but continued to proclaim and assert his testimony and the truthfulness of what he had seen and heard. Although Whitmer never returned to Mormonism, in the fifty years he lived outside of the Church he insisted that he knew the Book of Mormon was divinely revealed. Anyone seriously interested in Whitmer’s testimony should read Lyndon W. Cook’s, David Whitmer Interviews: A Restoration Witness. Cook documents seventy-two interviews with David Whitmer concerning his experience with the angel and plates– the experience upon which his Book of Mormon testimony is based. All seventy-two interviews took place after David Whitmer had left the Church. If he had lost his testimony following his excommunication, he would have had ample opportunity to deny his earlier proclamation. Instead, however, we find that Whitmer continued to assert its truthfulness.

.............................................


A few days before he died an article in the Chicago Tribune read:

David Whitmer, the last one of the three witnessed to the truth of the Book of Mormon, is now in a dying condition at his home in Richmond. Last evening he called the family and friends to his bedside, and bore his testimony to the truth of the Book of Mormon and the Bible. (Chicago Tribune Correspondent 23 January 1888, quoted in Cook, 220.)

[_marg]

Why me,

If you really believed David Whitmer was telling the truth as per the quotes, and the quote on his death bed is true..then you should be a Mormon. The fact that you aren't tells me you don't believe it.