Did Elder Snow Misrepresent the Truth on National TV

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_consiglieri
_Emeritus
Posts: 6186
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:47 pm

Re: Did Elder Snow Misrepresent the Truth on National TV

Post by _consiglieri »

Blixa wrote:I also don't understand what the imagined result of "we don't know" is supposed to be. It leaves all kind of terrible racial beliefs circulating among older members (and possibly the not so old as well) and looks extraordinarily disingenuous to the Gentile. I can't think of a good rationale for going down this road.


Agreed.

It is becoming clear that the "we don't know" party line means only "We don't know why the priesthood ban was put into effect."

The unstated corrolary is, "But we do know that God did it."

Why God remains taciturn regarding why he initially placed the ban on blacks or why he subsequently lifted it also falls into the category of "we don't know."

This might be okay if we are talking about why gnostic Christians or some other sect thousands of years ago did things.

But we are talking about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which, within the lifetime of many living general authorities issued the 1949 First Presidency Statement, and which even within my own lifetime lifted the priesthood ban in 1978.

To any reasonable outside observer, for the LDS Church to say, "We don't know" under these circumstances is tantamount to saying, "We'd rather not talk about it."

Good grief. The LDS Church claims to have no less than fifteen prophets at its head, none of whom can get God on the line to answer this simple question?

It out Herods Herod!

All the Best!

--Consiglieri
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
_Blixa
_Emeritus
Posts: 8381
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: Did Elder Snow Misrepresent the Truth on National TV

Post by _Blixa »

Man, that Lester Bush article takes me back. That, and his previous review of Stephen Taggart's work, are the first Dialogue articles I ever read.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_DarkHelmet
_Emeritus
Posts: 5422
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:38 pm

Re: Did Elder Snow Misrepresent the Truth on National TV

Post by _DarkHelmet »

Aristotle Smith wrote:
the narrator wrote:Far from anybody every knowing the reasons, it seems that all of the myriad given explanations for the ban were post hoc explanations.


This is hairsplitting in my opinion. The idea seems to be that because we don't have some contemporaneous document giving reasons for the ban, the church can hide behind the "we don't know" stance. So what if all of the reasons given were post hoc explanations? These were still the reasons given by prophets, seer, and revelators for decades. Why are these always conveniently ignored because of lack of contemporaneous documentation? Why not give the post hoc explanations and then explain why they no longer hold?

Besides, lack of contemporaneous documentation has never stopped the church from asserting that the Melchizedek priesthood was restored and why it was needed. The post hoc explanations given for this always seem to be good enough for the church and its members.


Great point. Since members don't receive church doctrine directly from God, they rely on the prophets, seers, and revelators to explain the revealed doctrine to them. Therefore, it is all post hoc explanation.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die."
- Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
_Stormy Waters

Re: Did Elder Snow Misrepresent the Truth on National TV

Post by _Stormy Waters »

Finally got around to watching the special and I noticed this statement Snow made about polygamy.

"We believe in 1890 that stopped and our prophet told us that was no longer acceptable."

Found here at about 3:30

Being the church historian he has to be aware that polygamy didn't stop in 1890 with the manifesto. Obviously he didn't have the time to go into a lot of detail about post-manifesto polygamy, but it's odd that he volunteered a specific year for the end of polygamy that was incorrect.
Last edited by _Stormy Waters on Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
_Drifting
_Emeritus
Posts: 7306
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:52 am

Re: Did Elder Snow Misrepresent the Truth on National TV

Post by _Drifting »

Stormy Waters wrote:Finally got around to watching the special and I noticed this statement he made about polygamy.

"We believe in 1890 that stopped and our prophet told us that was no longer acceptable."

Found here at about 3:30

Being the church historian he has to be aware that polygamy didn't stop with in 1890 with the manifesto. Obviously he didn't have the time to go into a lot of detail about post-manifesto polygamy, but it's odd that he volunteered a specific year that was incorrect.


Odd...given that the Church 'doesn't hide it's history'....
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_PrickKicker
_Emeritus
Posts: 480
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:39 pm

Re: Did Elder Snow Misrepresent the Truth on National TV

Post by _PrickKicker »

Stormy Waters wrote:Finally got around to watching the special and I noticed this statement Snow made about polygamy.

"We believe in 1890 that stopped and our prophet told us that was no longer acceptable."

Found here at about 3:30

Being the church historian he has to be aware that polygamy didn't stop in 1890 with the manifesto. Obviously he didn't have the time to go into a lot of detail about post-manifesto polygamy, but it's odd that he volunteered a specific year for the end of polygamy that was incorrect.


He just said that because that is when the President Snows comments following Official Declaration 1 in the D&C p292 was dated, whereas the Declaration itself is not dated.
PrickKicker: I used to be a Narrow minded, short sighted, Lying, Racist, Homophobic, Pious, Moron. But they were all behavioral traits that I had learnt through Mormonism.
_Craig Paxton
_Emeritus
Posts: 2389
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:28 pm

Re: Did Elder Snow Misrepresent the Truth on National TV

Post by _Craig Paxton »

Stormy Waters wrote:Finally got around to watching the special and I noticed this statement Snow made about polygamy.

"We believe in 1890 that stopped and our prophet told us that was no longer acceptable."

Found here at about 3:30

Being the church historian he has to be aware that polygamy didn't stop in 1890 with the manifesto. Obviously he didn't have the time to go into a lot of detail about post-manifesto polygamy, but it's odd that he volunteered a specific year for the end of polygamy that was incorrect.


I really want to give Snow the benefit of the doubt...but I would also expect the Official Church Historian to have at least a rudimentary understand of the Church History that he supposedly is charged with overseeing. Even those who have had even the most elementary exposure to church history know that polygamy didn't end in 1890...that it took another 30 years to purge the church of this practice.

Since I can't imagine that he is that uninformed...I am only left with one other conclusion

These two misstatements of the truth by Snow are unfortunate for someone who supposedly represents Christ...I would expect this kind of obfuscation of the truth from a PR spokesperson...but not from someone who is held to a higher standard in proclaiming truth.
"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace

"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick

“The meaning of life is that it ends" - Franz Kafka
_Drifting
_Emeritus
Posts: 7306
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:52 am

Re: Did Elder Snow Misrepresent the Truth on National TV

Post by _Drifting »

Snows gonna be a bit surprised when he starts reading the archives...
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_PrickKicker
_Emeritus
Posts: 480
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:39 pm

Re: Did Elder Snow Misrepresent the Truth on National TV

Post by _PrickKicker »

When is someone going to man up and say Mormons read your scriptures esp: Declaration 1 and tell the truth!

The only reason it stopped was the law of the land and God had to back down with his tail between his legs.

D&C132 If you know about polygamy and don't practice it you are damned.
Modern Mormons will try and pass this off as Celestial marriage, the sealing of a husband to a wife in the Temple. but that is an out right lie, just read it.

They also believe it is only a matter of time before it is reinstated, it will be during the Mormon millennium.
After all Gays can now marry and singles can screw who they like.

Muslims that have more than 1 wife legally in Muslim countries cannot live and practice their religion freely either.

America land of religious freedom? I think NOT.
PrickKicker: I used to be a Narrow minded, short sighted, Lying, Racist, Homophobic, Pious, Moron. But they were all behavioral traits that I had learnt through Mormonism.
Post Reply