Really this is consiced appropriate on a Sunday???? WTF

[_Dr. Shades]

Okay, so we all agree that the delivery was the problem, not the factual content per se?

[_madeleine]

I have all kinds of problem with the content, but not comfortable going there.

[_palerobber]

It's an inconvenience if I get manipulated into taking out the trash or doing the dishes. Sex, on the other hand, is supposed to be something intimate that connects us as partners physically and emotionally; using manipulation or guilt makes sex into something no more important than taking out the trash.

thanks for the reply, Bob. that part i bolded above gets right down to it. so now i'll post one more comment and then duck out before i say something stupid (or stupider, perhaps).

as a young person i was certainly led to believe that sex would act as a kind of celestial glue in my marriage, especially as i'd left the lid screwed down tight until i'd found the right person to bond with. but now, when even secular people in our larger american culture talk about sex i often hear overtones of magic and mysticism that don't agree with me. maybe this was a lesson from church that i unlearned too well.

"connects us as partners physically and emotionally?" sure, but what in a marriage doesn't do that? "intimate"? well, although it's not the only thing that i share-with-my-spouse-and-none-other, i admit that does put it on a fairly short list. and finally, just because the sexual relationship should indeed be "more important than taking out the trash" that doesn't mean each and every individual act has to be.

[_Dr. Shades]

as a young person i was certainly led to believe that sex would act as a kind of celestial glue in my marriage, especially as i'd left the lid screwed down tight until i'd found the right person to bond with.

I think that was the thrust of the bishop's argument.

[_just me]

as a young person i was certainly led to believe that sex would act as a kind of celestial glue in my marriage, especially as i'd left the lid screwed down tight until i'd found the right person to bond with.

Obligatory or duty sex will not keep a marriage together.

[_just me]

Okay, so we all agree that the delivery was the problem, not the factual content per se?

The only thing factual he said is that the sex drive is a biological fact and built in by evolution.

[_just me]

It's an inconvenience if I get manipulated into taking out the trash or doing the dishes. Sex, on the other hand, is supposed to be something intimate that connects us as partners physically and emotionally; using manipulation or guilt makes sex into something no more important than taking out the trash.

thanks for the reply, Bob. that part i bolded above gets right down to it. so now i'll post one more comment and then duck out before i say something stupid (or stupider, perhaps).

as a young person i was certainly led to believe that sex would act as a kind of celestial glue in my marriage, especially as i'd left the lid screwed down tight until i'd found the right person to bond with. but now, when even secular people in our larger american culture talk about sex i often hear overtones of magic and mysticism that don't agree with me. maybe this was a lesson from church that i unlearned too well.

"connects us as partners physically and emotionally?" sure, but what in a marriage doesn't do that? "intimate"? well, although it's not the only thing that i share-with-my-spouse-and-none-other, i admit that does put it on a fairly short list. and finally, just because the sexual relationship should indeed be "more important than taking out the trash" that doesn't mean each and every individual act has to be.

"Hey honey, I know you feel like crap and aren't interested in sex with me. Just think of it like taking out the trash. Something that's gotta be done."

"Oh! Of course, darling! Let's go to bed right now!"

"And don't worry. This'll only take a second."

"Oh, good. I was worried you would be in there too long."

[_moksha]

Having sex when you don't want to, or have been manipulated or guilted into it, sucks.

could you not just as accurately say that doing any activity when you don't want to, or have been manipulated or guilted into it, sucks?

why does it suck more when that activity is sex?
(not challenging you, just curious of your perspective)

Perhaps due to perceived inherent oralcy.

Back to Powerpoint - Using this tool lends itself more to a lecture than discussion. Sexuality is an issue that begs to be discussed because it is so much a part of our humanity.

[_Blixa]

Having sex when you don't want to, or have been manipulated or guilted into it, sucks.

could you not just as accurately say that doing any activity when you don't want to, or have been manipulated or guilted into it, sucks?

why does it suck more when that activity is sex?

(not challenging you, just curious of your perspective)

Well, Bob covered most of this, but its the whole having someone else inside of your body that makes it a very intimate kind of abuse. And by inside, I mean physically and psychologically since head games are usually involved in guilt and manipulation. So by saying it "sucks" I was making a rhetorical understatement. It is a horrible and humiliating experience.

I can't say more about my own experiences because I'm already alarmed by the fact that someone thinks we're all in agreement that it was the bishop's delivery and not his content "per se" that we disagree about. Ye gods.

[_Cicero]

I can't say more about my own experiences because I'm already alarmed by the fact that someone thinks we're all in agreement that it was the bishop's delivery and not his content "per se" that we disagree about. Ye gods.

Yeah, I wasn't really sure how to respond to that post either except to say "Ehh . . . no"