Huge day for me - going to Jesus mall for first time

[_lulu]

The thing I think is important, is disclosure. If I'm donating funds I want to know how they are used.

Tithing funds are used for the benefit of the LDS church. And so far, I see no problem. The IRS has complete access to the financial statements. They can also be audited.

Now madeleine, we know that the vatican is a rather secretive onclave. We have no idea what is going on in the vatican bank or in the vatican itself. Can the IRS look at the vatican books? I don't think so. It is a state within itself.

http://www.romereports.com/palio/vatica ... -7226.html

http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/mo ... See_en.asp

[_madeleine]

Tithing funds are used for the benefit of the LDS church. And so far, I see no problem. The IRS has complete access to the financial statements. They can also be audited.

No doubt they benefit from money that is given to them. Transparency means disclosing to donors how funds are collected and used. An IRS audit doesn't provide this, or require it.

Now madeleine, we know that the vatican is a rather secretive onclave. We have no idea what is going on in the vatican bank or in the vatican itself. Can the IRS look at the vatican books? I don't think so. It is a state within itself.

A) the Vatican discloses its finances.
B) a criminal engaged in criminal activity is by nature, secretive. The Vatican bank is not secretive. Individuals engaged in criminal activity, who worked for the bank, were. Unlike Mormons, and a lot of former Mormons, I hold no idea that humans are perfect, including humans of high position or rank. In other words, I am not surprised by corruption, but rather, am skeptical of an organization who claims financial secrecy is "God's will"....such as the LDS church. I think it is the height of naiveté for its members to think "all is well". You don't know that, and never will.
C) The IRS is a US government institution, which has no jurisdiction over any institution outside of the US. It has no jurisdiction over US government finances either. So if you are looking for a comparison, it is the US Government Accountability Office (GAO) which has financial oversite of federal institutions.

This could be a Euro institution, such as Moneyval. You may find this to be interesting:

http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/ne ... e-pedigree

[_why me]

http://www.romereports.com/palio/vatica ... -7226.html

http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/mo ... See_en.asp

Now, lulu, lets have an independent auditor look at the monies. The vatican is a state and as such it needs to behave as a state. But do you really believe that we can ever know what is going on in the vatican? The vatican bank has found itself in hot water sometimes.

My point is simple: catholics who come here to trash the LDS church need to see the skeletons in their own faith.

[_why me]

This could be a Euro institution, such as Moneyval. You may find this to be interesting:

http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/ne ... e-pedigree

The vatican has its own flag, banker, secretary of state etc. It is a country within a country. There are a set of rules that it must follow as such. The vatican also has ambassadors representing it in various countries. It is in a different league than a normal church. And follows a different set of rules.

The LDS church is not breaking any laws. And as such no problem. I am sure that the IRS or any other government organization would find irregularities if they existed.

Besides, the antimormons would have field day if the church opened its books. Just look at the mall problem. Best to keep it all secret and respectful.

[_cafe crema]

This could be a Euro institution, such as Moneyval. You may find this to be interesting:

http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/ne ... e-pedigree

The vatican has its own flag, banker, secretary of state etc. It is a country within a country. There are a set of rules that it must follow as such. The vatican also has ambassadors representing it in various countries. It is in a different league than a normal church. And follows a different set of rules.

The LDS church is not breaking any laws. And as such no problem. I am sure that the IRS or any other government organization would find irregularities if they existed.

Besides, the antimormons would have field day if the church opened its books. Just look at the mall problem. Best to keep it all secret and respectful.

Yep like I said the LDS church is secretive.

[_lulu]

http://www.romereports.com/palio/vatica ... -7226.html

http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/mo ... See_en.asp

Now, lulu, lets have an independent auditor look at the monies. The vatican is a state and as such it needs to behave as a state. But do you really believe that we can ever know what is going on in the vatican? The vatican bank has found itself in hot water sometimes.

My point is simple: catholics who come here to trash the LDS church need to see the skeletons in their own faith.

Now, why me, can you post comparable links for the Mormon church?

[_hobo1512]

This could be a Euro institution, such as Moneyval. You may find this to be interesting:

http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/ne ... e-pedigree

The vatican has its own flag, banker, secretary of state etc. It is a country within a country. There are a set of rules that it must follow as such. The vatican also has ambassadors representing it in various countries. It is in a different league than a normal church. And follows a different set of rules.

The LDS church is not breaking any laws. And as such no problem. I am sure that the IRS or any other government organization would find irregularities if they existed.

Besides, the antimormons would have field day if the church opened its books. Just look at the mall problem. Best to keep it all secret and respectful.

The Catholic Church is much more open about it's finances than the Mormon church has ever been.

Why is the first presidency incorporated? Throws it into a whole different category than a "church" wouldn't you say?

[_hobo1512]

Now madeleine, we know that the vatican is a rather secretive onclave. We have no idea what is going on in the vatican bank or in the vatican itself. Can the IRS look at the vatican books? I don't think so. It is a state within itself.

You are talking apples and oranges as usual.

1. Vatican is a City/State. It's finances are not open to the rest of the world, just like any other country.

2. Catholic Churches within the US are subject to the IRS, and their books are open to them, as well as parishoners. I have seen many a financial statement from different parishes. I have seen financial statements from Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc. How many Mormon churches, stakes, whatever they're called do you see financial statements from. Let me help you out....NONE.

Don't you get tired of being a hypocrite?

[_why me]

How many Mormon churches, stakes, whatever they're called do you see financial statements from. Let me help you out....NONE.

Don't you get tired of being a hypocrite?

I think that local wards or branches can be quite upfront with their finances, likewise with stakes. But I don't think that Mormons care very much about it. They trust their leaders. However, when Mormons leave their faith, it then becomes their bedbug because they need bedbugs to scratch their itch toward the LDS church.

Like you...the LDS church is your bedbug.

[_hobo1512]

How many Mormon churches, stakes, whatever they're called do you see financial statements from. Let me help you out....NONE.

Don't you get tired of being a hypocrite?

I think that local wards or branches can be quite upfront with their finances, likewise with stakes. But I don't think that Mormons care very much about it. They trust their leaders. However, when Mormons leave their faith, it then becomes their bedbug because they need bedbugs to scratch their itch toward the LDS church.

Like you...the LDS church is your bedbug.

LOL, ok, keep telling yourself that.

Haven't you noticed how many active Mormons are wondering how much tithing money went into the Jesus mall? Doesn't sound like they trust them that much.

"can be" upfront is light years away from "being" upfront. How many financial statements have you seen from a Mormon church, ward, etc.?

Consider me your can of Raid.

Don't you get tired of being a hypocrite?