Let's all self-identify as Mormons

[_sock puppet]

It seems to me a very American idea that you can just be something because you choose to claim that you are that something, no matter what the criteria of the group you claim to belong might be according to others and how those criteria might be structured and ranked by other members of the group. One can self-identify as X while not actually gaining the recognition of belonging to X in any significant way by others who self-identify as X. Does that mean the self-identifier is not X? Not necessarily, but it means you have to give pretty compelling reasons why we should take that self-identifier as seriously as (not to say more seriously than) the majority when we are discussing group X.

Unless I've missed something in these various threads, I'm surprised no one has brought up Rachel Dolezal.

This is an interesting perspective. Is Mormonism just Identity Politics? And I do feel comfortable using that term since Mormonism, much like Islam, has set itself up as a Total System (Kingdom of God, etc...).

I guess the real question is if you slap enough foundation on your face, and you get a job representing the in-group, does that make you Mormon Afro-American?



V/R
Doc

Since she self-identifies as African American, then why wouldn't you take her perspectives and views as well as her actual race, into account in determining what it means to be African American?

[_Kishkumen]

Ultimately the argument over identity is next to pointless unless there are serious stakes. When it comes to being Mormon or not, the stakes are nowhere near as serious or contested as they are in the case of Black or Native American identity. Religion and race are not exactly the same thing--sure the identity issues can overlap: look at the exoticization of Mormon identity in 19th and early 20th century newspaper art. But these days, saying I am Mormon is tantamount to admitting that you are a nice, if sometimes annoying, person with retrograde social views and funny beliefs.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Ultimately the argument over identity is next to pointless unless there are serious stakes. When it comes to being Mormon or not, the stakes are nowhere near as serious or contested as they are in the case of Black or Native American identity. Religion and race are not exactly the same thing--sure the identity issues can overlap: look at the exoticization of Mormon identity in 19th and early 20th century newspaper art. But these days, saying I am Mormon is tantamount to admitting that you are a nice, if sometimes annoying, person with retrograde social views and funny beliefs.

Tell that to the Shias and Sunnis in Iraq and Syria, or the Protestants and Catholics in Ireland. Sorry, I'm being hyperbolic. ;)

I lived in the South for a good while, and my experience tells me that being a Mormon in the South is tantamount to being the Devil. Perhaps the only people more openly reviled were Muslims.

I think the future of Mormonism is exactly what you described. They'll always lag on social convention. How they get there is really the question. I think Mr. Mak's method of "grassroot" evangelizing is not only risky for him, but totally ineffective. Ever since correlation became a thing the only real Mormon identity that matters (because it'll bleed over to the ecclesiastical CHoI) is what comes out of the COB.

- Doc

[_Jersey Girl]

I lived in the South for a good while, and my experience tells me that being a Mormon in the South is tantamount to being the Devil. Perhaps the only people more openly reviled were Muslims.

That's odd. The first LDS person I ever met was a guy I worked with in the South. It was he who gave me my first Book of Mormon and we talked openly on our breaks about religion and no one ever said a word about it or him. He was well liked by everyone.

He was from New Jersey, by the way. All true!

[_Quasimodo]

I lived in the South for a good while, and my experience tells me that being a Mormon in the South is tantamount to being the Devil. Perhaps the only people more openly reviled were Muslims.

That's odd. The first LDS person I ever met was a guy I worked with in the South. It was he who gave me my first Book of Mormon and we talked openly on our breaks about religion and no one ever said a word about it or him. He was well liked by everyone.

He was from New Jersey, by the way. All true!

I lived in the South for a while. I moved there from SLC. When in Utah, the first thing a new person I met would ask is "are you a member of the church?" or "what ward are you in?"

In the five years I lived in Tennessee, I can't remember anyone asking me "what church do you belong to?". It was a breath of fresh air.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I lived in the South for a good while, and my experience tells me that being a Mormon in the South is tantamount to being the Devil. Perhaps the only people more openly reviled were Muslims.

That's odd. The first LDS person I ever met was a guy I worked with in the South. It was he who gave me my first Book of Mormon and we talked openly on our breaks about religion and no one ever said a word about it or him. He was well liked by everyone.

He was from New Jersey, by the way. All true!

Well, Southern Christians are very, very nice to your face, sugar. They'll just treat other with the utmost respect,bless your heart. But, oh Lordy Lordy, get them alone and they'll let you know, as God is my witness, how they feel 'bout them Mormons. Honey, don't let that worry you none. Jesus is fittin' to come back and tend to his vineyard, sweetheart. Believe you me baby, even if that Mormon wun't kin, they'd still love on him. 'Cuz if Jesus taught them one thang it wuz to love on all his children, both sinner and sain't alike.

Anyway. I have no doubt your experience is authentic. All I can tell you after having lived in North Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Texas, and spent a good amount of time in Florida, Tennessee, and Virginia I've had countless conversations with Southerners, when they found out I was Mormon (but no longer affiliated!!) they would let me know in no uncertain terms what they thought of them. And it wasn't good. It was the opposite of good.

But, yes, they were very polite.

V/R
Doc "Bless your heart." NCforMe

[_Jersey Girl]

Well, Southern Christians are very, very nice to your face, sugar. They'll just treat other with the utmost respect,bless your heart. But, oh Lordy Lordy, get them alone and they'll let you know, as God is my witness, how they feel 'bout them Mormons. Honey, don't let that worry you none. Jesus is fittin' to come back and tend to his vineyard, sweetheart. Believe you me baby, even if that Mormon wun't kin, they'd still love on him. 'Cuz if Jesus taught them one thang it wuz to love on all his children, both sinner and sain't alike.

Anyway. I have no doubt your experience is authentic. All I can tell you after having lived in North Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Texas, and spent a good amount of time in Florida, Tennessee, and Virginia I've had countless conversations with Southerners, when they found out I was Mormon (but no longer affiliated!!) they would let me know in no uncertain terms what they thought of them. And it wasn't good. It was the opposite of good.

But, yes, they were very polite.

V/R
Doc "Bless your heart." NCforMe

Oh, they weren't nice to my face. In the beginning they used to look at me sideways and whisper "Damn Yankee" under their breath at me as they turned to walk away. I ended up getting a tee shirt made that said "Yankee Lady" in glitter letters and wore it to work.

See? I was just like I am now even back then.

They ended up liking me eventually. I think it was because I was the only female that swore on the job.



p.s. They were truck drivers. ;-)

[_Everybody Wang Chung]

In the beginning they used to look at me sideways and whisper "Damn Yankee" under their breath at me as they turned to walk away.

BS

[_Jersey Girl]

In the beginning they used to look at me sideways and whisper "Damn Yankee" under their breath at me as they turned to walk away.

BS

That's the exact truth.

[_Quasimodo]

I guess we all had different experiences. I count the people in the South to be genually the kindest, sweetest people I've ever run across. I still have good friends from that time.

I've said many times that if I were homeless, I would want to be homeless in the South. Someone will always take you home and give you a good meal.