Former Stake President Excommunicated for being a woman.

[_Polygamy-Porter]

This is NOT A FEMALE who impregnated a MALE.

No colon babies here.

The pregnant woman has been taking male hormones, and may have had her breasts reduced or completely removed.


The man in drag may be just that, dressed as a woman or perhaps he is taking female hormones, had breast implants, and even had his penis and testicles cut off, but not before depositing sperm from his testicles into the female's vagina, either using his penis or a turkey blaster full of his semen.

[_Polygamy-Porter]

To the folks on this thread who agree that is man is now considered a woman simply because he feels like a woman, how do you feel about steroid use in athletes?

Perhaps athletes who take steroids are just fulfilling their desire to become the incredible hulk, spider man, wonder woman, etc??

This now call into question male athletes who "identify as female" and start competing as female against natural born females.

Is that fair??

http://www.wnd.com/2017/03/female-athle ... -once-men/

[_Chap]

Frankly, it gives me no problem at all if a man sincerely decides that he wants to change to living as a woman, or vice versa. The huge difficulties and disruption involved will exclude all but a tiny fraction of those who make the choice as the result of a disposition to be time wasters and poseurs.

As a matter of mutual human respect and kindness to others who are having to navigate through the often stormy and sometimes dreary waters we have to sail between cradle and grave, I have no problem about according them the courtesy of treating them as they wish to be treated.

I am, by the way pretty fully aware of the biological and medical issues involved. That makes no difference to how I conduct my interpersonal relations in such cases. And it surprises me that other people are willing to put so much effort into being upset about other peoples' choices, and in expressing themselves on this subject in such repellently coarse terms. Are there no more urgent problems in society than this to get worked up about?

[Guest]

The brain isn't confused about the body, this person is simply saying words to that effect. The brain is autonomously managing all sorts of data that we're not consciously aware of. No inherent reason? Is this a joke?!? Billions of examples of humans who's expressed mental state matches with the gender of their physical body. Without compelling scientific evidence to challenge what is well established common sense, it would be nothing short of idiotic and irresponsible to operate under the assumptions you are.

I would ask for references to support this statement, but you've made it clear in previous similar threads that you don't base opinions like this on actual knowledge, evidence or scientific research. Your assumptions about "well established common sense" are similarly insupportable.

EAllusion's comments about this, on the other hand, are very strongly supported:

[E]very major medical and mental health organization has issued position statements supporting the necessity and efficacy of affirming care for transgender people. None of them have signed off on a model of rejecting identities.

Indeed, World Professional Association of Transgender Health (WPATH), the foremost body of experts on transgender health in the world, has this to say about what Mayer and McHugh propose:

“Treatment aimed at trying to change a person’s gender identity and expression to become more congruent with sex assigned at birth has been attempted in the past without success (Gelder & Marks, 1969; Greenson, 1964), particularly in the long term (Cohen-Kettenis & Kuiper, 1984; Pauly, 1965). Such treatment is no longer considered ethical.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/deb ... 33072b36a4

I see no credible reason to assume that a person who believes they are a dog is any less "crazy" than a man (like the OP) who believes he's a woman. You speculate he might have a female brain in a male body. You have no evidence for that, and the preponderance of evidence laughs at these silly assumptions. We can speculate anything. Maybe aliens abducted him and performed experiments on him. You can't prove that's not true. The reasonable assumption is that this person is just deranged.

The only reference you posted that supports this position has been thoroughly discredited. Do you have anything to support your statement that "the reasonable assumption...that this person is just deranged"? Even making a cogent argument would be a start, rather than unsupported assertions like this.

As your opinions seem mostly informed by your one source, another comment about that is in order:

Dean Hamer, PhD, who is scientist emeritus at the National Institutes of Health, took a scalpel to Mayer and McHugh’s claims in a scathing review titled "New 'Scientific' Study on Sexuality, Gender Is Neither New nor Science."

Hamer did not mince words in his article, writing in conclusion:

"When the data we have struggled so long and hard to collect is twisted and misinterpreted by people who call themselves scientists, and who receive the benefits and protection of a mainstream institution such as John Hopkins Medical School, it disgusts me."

http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/ ... rt-n641501

[_Lemmie]

As a matter of mutual human respect and kindness to others who are having to navigate through the often stormy and sometimes dreary waters we have to sail between cradle and grave, I have no problem about according them the courtesy of treating them as they wish to be treated.

I am, by the way pretty fully aware of the biological and medical issues involved. That makes no difference to how I conduct my interpersonal relations in such cases.

Well said.

[_Lemmie]

Lemmie, what do you do for a living?

Why do you ask?

[_Chap]

Lemmie, what do you do for a living?

Why do you ask?

in real life information is ALWAYS best not posted. Apart from the dangers, it carries no weight since it can always be made up anyway.

Just say you are a professor of Gender Science at at an Ivy League university, Lemmie.

[_moksha]

Given the position he was in, excommunication was their only option.

Glad that burning him at the stake center was off the table as an option.

[_Jersey Girl]

Why do you ask?

Just trying to get some context, maybe help me understand why you're so tedious. What can I say to get you to stop stalking me?

You're under no obligation to reply to every post that is made to you. If you dislike the interactions you're having with another forum member, simply stop interacting. Furthermore, it's really not okay for you to accuse another member of stalking you when you yourself have asked an invasive question about their in real life.

So shut it and continue to respond to those on topic comments that you want to. No one is holding a gun to your head and making you reply to anyone's posts here.

Boy, that speech felt pretty darn good.

;-)

[_Jersey Girl]

Picking this up again. It's not only the idea of a person being born in the wrong body. I think it's far more complicated than that. For example, I pointed out to you (or tried to) that the world isn't divided up into three gender classifications: male, female and hermaphrodite.

There are children born with ambiguous genitalia or intersexed, where upon birth a parent or doctor would decide which gender they were. What if in this case, the doctor or parent errors in their determination and the child grows up feeling that their physical characteristics do not match what their brain tells them they are?

When you think about that it, it only begs the question, "Are there human beings born with less evident internal factors (I think EA mentioned brain states) that do not naturally match their external characteristics, and if so, why are we not making the connections as a society with regard to the social, emotional, psychological conflict that leads them to feel they can never gain control over the conflict because society doesn't understand who they are, why they are, and why that leads so many youth to suicide?"

Is it really our right to decide for another human being what gender they are? Do you see how it's not a reasonable and even a dangerous position for us to dictate gender identity to another human being based on what is viewable when we well, when we're too damn lazy to do the research (because it's easier to judge and dictate, than it is to think and reason) and admit that these are highly complex issues and challenges based on which ever increasing numbers of youth are killing themselves over because the rest of the world is largely indifferent to their struggle?

Don't shoot me for the run on sentences. I like to think of them more as sermons or lectures.

;-)

I responded to this already. I simply don't agree. Show me data, give me examples to argue for what you're saying. The world is not divided into more than 3 gender classifications. There are only two, male and female. And then there are all the birth defects for which a variety of different labels get assigned. Whether someone's body gets formed with deformed genitalia or not, that person still falls into one of the two genders. No different than having an extra finger or a random pair of teeth growing in a strange location. The only potential deviation from this is Klinefelter syndrome, which is considered a chromosomal problem affecting males. They're still male.

See the sentences that I wrote that end with the little squiggly marks? Those are question marks and they look like this--? I posed a series of 3 questions to you, none of which have you chosen to answer. You either take the topic seriously or you really don't. You've got at least 2 people on the thread who understand that the issues are far more complex than what you have described, each of us offering you different approaches. It's okay with me if you don't take it seriously, but don't waste my time like this.