Vogel video on magic parchments and Jupiter talisman

[huckelberry]

I do not think Joseph felt a need to repent of his magic.

He didn't fully repent, per se, because the artifacts used for treasure seeking ventures were retained rather than disposed of. Interestingly, in a letter to Oliver Cowdery in 1834 and published in the Messenger and Advocate, Smith made a public confession that up until the time he turned 21 while living in Palmyra and Manchester, he was guilty of having "fell into many vices and follies" which he felt were common wrongdoings of a typical youth. So he forgave himself and moved on. Good for him, I won't fault him for that.

Later, in the 1838 Elders' Journal, Smith confessed that he was a "money digger, but it was never very profitable," as if he should be excused for his misdeeds or failures in seeking treasure. But the fact remains, the magic parchments used for occult-like rites were retained and kept in possession as a reminder of ventures that would later be renounced and replaced for the quest of spiritual treasure. If Smith had fully repented he would have destroyed the parchments used to practice his vices and follies. But they were retained and that is my point! He should have gotten rid of those parchments just as his descendants (Joseph F. Smith & Joseph Fielding Smith) would have gotten rid of playing cards or worse, TAROT cards. Imagine Joseph Fielding Smith with a deck of TAROT cards kept locked up in his private bureau!

So, the fact the parchments survived is a definite indicator that not all things are in order as self-righteous Latter-day Saints today might like to think.

Shulem, you stopped with my post at the point that it started to get fun (I thought). I like playing cards; my very Mormon mother liked to play bridge. Sometimes it was a family affair when the kids got old enough. No interest in Tarot cards, however. Perhaps showing my card limitations I have spent a few more eons playing hearts than playing bridge.

Back to repenting, a person doesn't repent of things they have attached to the very heart of their faith.

[Shulem]

O Joseph, you'll never rid me. Showest me a magic parchment so that I may inherit a fortune. I swear not to tell Emma if you pay me.

I'll toast to that!

[Shulem]

Hi Shulem, you cause a couple of thoughts for me. I find myself thinking that despite a priority of Spirit in importance the physical still has its importance and use. I would not feel betrayed by fate if I found a treasure. If substantial I would feel obligations about its use.

The excitement of uncovering treasure is common fantasy had by everyone at one time or another. The lure and enticing desires to obtain wealth is basic human nature and provides excitement to an otherwise dull status quo. In my 3-page thread:

Radio Free Mormon: Treasure Digging with Joseph Smith and John Steinbeck,

I explore the desires of Joseph Smith continuing to seek treasure but doing so under guise of being a prophet to the church. Smith was ever ambitious and craved treasure, come hell or high water. But ultimately his failure was complete and he was forced to come to terms that spirituality, not physical possessions, is supreme and winning souls is more valuable than any earthly treasure. Smith learned his lesson.

Be sure to check that thread out! Enjoy.

Shout out to RFM!

[Shulem]

I think the magic world view is the source or justification for his peculiar theology of an endless series of limited spirits becoming divine via mastery of the rules and power that govern the universe. (the source of magic power). That and his focus on the power of ritual rules to acess the power, (or is that to involve people in his sphere of personal power?)

An official statement tendered by the Church about Treasure Seeking plays down the idea that Smith seriously undertook treasure seeking by magical means because it was inherently part of the very character that influenced his shady nature. Just how many people were fooled and deceived by the wiles of Smith family misadventures? How many people were hurt and deceived by Joseph's wild antics in practicing the occult? I'll bet Dan Vogel can provide a good answer to that effect. Where is Dan?

But the Church covers up Smith's true nature in hoping to keep members dumb and prevent them from figuring out the truth for themselves while apologists continue to practice the fine art of deception. Smith's legacy continues in them in a foul nature to deceive. It's utterly shameful!

Joseph Smith’s critics often tried to disparage him by calling him a money digger or a treasure seeker.

Let's be clear, Joseph's activities as a "money digger" or a "treasure seeker" in no way whatsoever provides any credit to his character! Everything about those ventures prove a liability in demonstrating what kind of people Joseph and his family were. The magic parchments are *physical* proof of that!

Rather than deny the charge, Joseph acknowledged in his official history that Josiah Stowell had hired him in 1825 to assist in a treasure-seeking venture in northern Pennsylvania.

Stowell hired Joseph because of his famed credentials and experience in practicing occult magic. Joseph Smith was up to the task and Stowell opened his wallet and paid him to do just that. He used the boy because he thought he possessed spiritual gifts to control spiritual realms and uncover and seize treasure which without magic could never be obtained.

Stowell wanted his help because Joseph was reputed by some of his neighbors to be a “seer”—someone who could look into a special stone and find lost or hidden objects.

Yes, Joseph had a resume and a reputation for practicing magic. Looking into that stone to find treasure was the desire of Joseph's heart because his heart was set on the things of the world. The art of deception was Joseph's expertise and that continued into the spiritual realm in which Mormonism was founded.

“Seeing” and “seers” were part of the culture in which Joseph Smith grew up. Some people in the early 19th century believed it was possible for gifted individuals to see lost objects by means of material objects such as stones. Joseph Smith and his family, like many around them, accepted these familiar folk practices.

You know the old adage, two wrongs don't make a right. The Smith family was just as wrong as any other family in their community. Folk magic was practiced by the Smith family. That was the very foundation of which Mormonism came into existence. The stone, hat, angels, and imagined treasures -- that is exactly what inspired Mormonism.

[Shulem]

Joseph Smith’s critics often tried to disparage him by calling him a money digger or a treasure seeker.

Let's be clear, Joseph's activities as a "money digger" or a "treasure seeker" in no way whatsoever provides any credit to his character! Everything about those ventures prove a liability in demonstrating what kind of people Joseph and his family were. The magic parchments are *physical* proof of that!

In October 1945 General Conference, President George Albert Smith gave a blah blah blah talk about the wonderful experiences and accomplishments of Joseph Smith and the founding of Mormonism. Just like the recent statement made on today's Church Website, President Smith acknowledged that Joseph was a "money digger" but failed to connect or associate occult magic practices with the Smiths. He said nothing about magic or occult practice. Instead, President Smith likened the young prophet to Jesus in whom the majority of the people in his time also rejected. So, Joseph Smith was justified in his misadventures of money digging because he like Jesus was also rejected. Give me a break!

When the time came for its publication, he was ridiculed. People derided him and called him a money digger because he worked for a living and had to earn that living part of the time digging in the earth. But they didn't look upon him as a servant of the Lord; neither did the majority of the people in the days of the Savior accept Jesus Christ of Nazareth as a servant of the Lord.

Notice that President Smith said that Joseph "HAD TO EARN" his living by money digging as if he had no choice but was only doing what was necessary to help support the family. THAT is utter BS. Smith CHOSE to dig for treasures using the occult to assist him in his quest in order to get rich and satisfy his desire for filthy lucre. That was the makings of the Mormon prophet!

[Shulem]

There is a point about the Magic Parchments which I wish to mention that perhaps has been missed by sources that have dutifully reported on this subject. It's a matter of the bag or the 4"x4" leather pouch that was designed to hold the parchments securely about the wearer's neck.

Look, the fact the bag has survived intact is further proof the Smith's cherished the parchments and sought to preserve them forever in their family line. Ultimately, the magical kit fell into the hands of the Hyrum Smith family and was kept and preserved to this day. The fact the bag survived suggests the original users respected the magical enchantments and absolutely wanted them to to be remembered and preserved forever as a testimony to Smith family magic.

If the bag had been discarded, then we might be able to reason they devalued ritualistic beliefs in magic and only kept the parchments as mementos to a once spurious activity that was discontinued and replaced with revelations of Mormonism. But the fact the bag was retained means they wanted all of it preserved as a testament to their reverence and respect of those things they considered sacred. I find this quite telling and worthy of due consideration in determining just how important the parchments were to Joseph Smith regardless of what people today may think.

Thus, these objects were held in reverence and forever preserved in memory of what the Smith's practiced. They preserved them because of their faith in what they are. And just what are they? They are occult objects that had nothing to do with Joseph Smith's revealed Mormonism but are traced back to the likes of Kelley, Dee, Scot, Sibley, and Barrett for the purpose of practicing folk magic.

[Shulem]

What if none of the parchments, let alone the bag, survived whereby we are able to examine them in modern times? That is a great question and I'm sure apologists would prefer that! Suppose Smith had destroyed the parchments and vowed to continue his life without invoking folk magic and through repentance it was determined the parchments had to be tossed in the fire and a recant to some extent was in order. But no, this was not the case because Smith valued the parchments to his last day and he was caught with a Jupiter talisman in his coat pocket.

IF & BUTS were candy and nuts then the apologists could have a merry Christmas. But as it is, they are stuck with Raphael and Jubanladace making merry and conjuring treasure for those who invoke their names on magical parchments -- even the profit Joseph Smith.

Raphael & Jubanladace sitting in a tree -- K I S S I N G! First comes love, then comes gay marriage, then come treasure in Joseph's carriage.



Merry Smithmas everyone!

[Shulem]

Look, see, behold my magic stone and hat.

Though it was not uncommon in Joseph Smith’s time and place to encounter people who claimed to use stones to search for lost or hidden objects, using a seer stone to translate an ancient record was unheard of. God gave Joseph Smith power to translate the Book of Mormon, redirecting Joseph’s use of the seer stone toward work of a spiritual nature.

Trust Joseph.

[Shulem]

And again, the voice of God in the chamber (dirty log cabin) of old Father Whitmer (who apostatized eight years later and was excommunicated with the rest of the Whitmer clan), in Fayette, Seneca county, and at sundry times, and in divers places through all the travels and tribulations of this Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! And the voice of Michael, the archangel; the voice of Gabriel (father-in-law of black queen Egyptus), and of Raphael (whose prominence is within the star of the magic parchment), and of divers angels, from Michael (who got a boner from Eve's rib) or Adam down to the present time, all declaring their dispensation, their rights, their keys, their honors, their majesty and glory, and the power of their priesthood (and treasures); giving line upon line (spell upon spell), precept upon precept (lie upon lie); here a little, and there a little; giving us consolation by holding forth that which is to come, confirming our hope (that at last we shall acquire buried treasure)!

[Shulem]

Later, in the 1838 Elders' Journal, Smith confessed that he was a "money digger, but it was never very profitable," as if he should be excused for his misdeeds or failures in seeking treasure.

So why didn't the "seer" and his looney father listen to prompting of the Spirit which could have warned them not to associate in a doomed adventure wherein no treasure would be found? Where was the spirit of discernment whereby these greedy men sought to obtain worldly treasure to satisfy their lust?

ANSWER: The Spirit working in Joseph Smith Sr. and his son was a sham and was wholly based on worldly desires that proved to be a total failure. So, time to find gold plates instead! Write a book about Jesus and start a religion and make money that way. Forget about Jubanladace and magic parchments -- time to introduce Moroni and buried gold plates. Thus, Mormonism was born hatched.

And we further agree that Joseph Smith, Sen. and Joseph Smith Jr. shall be considered as having two shares, two elevenths of all the property that may be obtained, the shares to be taken equally from each third.

Agreement of Josiah Stowell, 1825