healing/recovery through venting?

[_wenglund]

Hi Wade,

I don't know that the venting from PP or Vegas or others on RFM, is hurting the church or any one in it (from your comparison with regard to the angry husband and his hurt wife). RFM wouldn't have put me off the LDS church for instance, and I am sure that I am not the only one.

I do think at some point we just have to forgive and move on. Some people don't forgive easily, perhaps justifiably so. The forgiveness goes both ways though. (TBM's and those who have left)

(Just for the record I also see a lot of adults 'still' angry at their parents, often justifiably so, again. Maybe the relationship with the church, is similar to the relationship with the parent, there's a whole lot of trust issues there perhaps. Again at some point we probably should forgive our parents for any percieved or real injustices in our growing years when their influence was strongest. Sometimes it's easier said than done)

Just my opinion.

I believe you are quite mistaken if you think that the Church and its members are not hurt by the "venting" at RFM. In fact, you are rather naïve not to reckognize that much of the "venting" at RFM is intended to do just that.

Also, even if the Church were not to be directly or indirectly hurt by the "venting", certain forms of venting may unwittingly hurt and degrade the person doing the venting.

And, while I think the principle of forgiveness is wonderful and applicable to some degree in the way you suggest, I think a more helpful and healthy principle would be mutually respectful understanding. I am convinced that there would be little or no REASONABLE and RATIONAL need for the venting at RFM if mutually respectful understanding were in play.

Perhaps, though, it may be useful to pick an active, long term, and representative participant at RFM (like Steve Benson or Tal Bachman) and look at their "venting" and see if it has been therapeutic and/or corrosive to all parties concerned. What do you think?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_truth dancer]

Hi Wade,

Mr. X has become increasingly aggitated by his wife's incessant nagging and complaining and unhappiness, to the point that his anger is ready to explode. His wife comes in and starts railing on him about some menial task that he had yet to accomplish from the rather lengthy list of honey-do's. That was enough to trigger his anger, and he vented on her with a flury of invectives, foul language, and extremely derrogatory and demeaning remarks, that hurt and wounded her deeply. For days on end, and for weeks and months to follow, he kept up this flury of invectives.

Personally, I don't think being emotionally abusive to another human being is "venting," nor do I think emotional abuse is ever appropriate.

I would suggest venting is more like the women, in your above example, joining a support group for abused women and sharing her experience. Or maybe asking her sister who experienced a similar situation to come over to comfort her as she is distraught, sobbing, and needing support.


~dancer~

[_Mary]

Wade

I believe you are quite mistaken if you think that the Church and its members are not hurt by the "venting" at RFM. In fact, you are rather naïve not to reckognize that much of the "venting" at RFM is intended to do just that.

Active church members do not need to go on to RFM Wade. If they go there, they do so, knowing full well what the site is about. I don't know that people post on RFM to purposely hurt active members Wade. Try and see it from their point of view. Their world has come crashing down in many ways. It's a process of rebuilding, anaylising, venting, etc. They are regarded by many of their LDS associates as in the 'throws' of Satan's influence and heading for 'hell' in some active members opinions. They might be venting, but some of the active members are condemning them to a spiritual death for goodness sake. It's heady stuff.

Also, even if the Church were not to be directly or indirectly hurt by the "venting", certain forms of venting may unwittingly hurt and degrade the person doing the venting.

No disagreement with that

And, while I think the principle of forgiveness is wonderful and applicable to some degree in the way you suggest, I think a more helpful and healthy principle would be mutually respectful understanding. I am convinced that there would be little or no REASONABLE and RATIONAL need for the venting at RFM if mutually respectful understanding were in play.

That goes both ways Wade. The church is an exclusive truth claim religion, for many active members there's not much flexibility in the religion to allow for understanding and eternal well wishing of those who leave.

Perhaps, though, it may be useful to pick an active, long term, and representative participant at RFM (like Steve Benson or Tal Bachman) and look at their "venting" and see if it has been therapeutic and/or corrosive to all parties concerned. What do you think?

Steve Benson offers an interesting perspective because of his relationship to his grandfather and others in the higher eschelons of the religion. They are both clever, thinking people. They both often have made very reasonable observations on their time in the faith both positive and negative. You pick them because they are influential I think. But others make just as intelligent and astute observations on RFM. I was particularly interested in the experience of a mission president over there who had left the faith. I don't know that he ever vented. He seemed very reasonable.

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

Hi Wade,

I don't know that the venting from PP or Vegas or others on RFM, is hurting the church or any one in it (from your comparison with regard to the angry husband and his hurt wife). RFM wouldn't have put me off the LDS church for instance, and I am sure that I am not the only one.

I do think at some point we just have to forgive and move on. Some people don't forgive easily, perhaps justifiably so. The forgiveness goes both ways though. (TBM's and those who have left)

(Just for the record I also see a lot of adults 'still' angry at their parents, often justifiably so, again. Maybe the relationship with the church, is similar to the relationship with the parent, there's a whole lot of trust issues there perhaps. Again at some point we probably should forgive our parents for any percieved or real injustices in our growing years when their influence was strongest. Sometimes it's easier said than done)

Just my opinion.

I believe you are quite mistaken if you think that the Church and its members are not hurt by the "venting" at RFM. In fact, you are rather naïve not to reckognize that much of the "venting" at RFM is intended to do just that.

Also, even if the Church were not to be directly or indirectly hurt by the "venting", certain forms of venting may unwittingly hurt and degrade the person doing the venting.

And, while I think the principle of forgiveness is wonderful and applicable to some degree in the way you suggest, I think a more helpful and healthy principle would be mutually respectful understanding. I am convinced that there would be little or no REASONABLE and RATIONAL need for the venting at RFM if mutually respectful understanding were in play.

Perhaps, though, it may be useful to pick an active, long term, and representative participant at RFM (like Steve Benson or Tal Bachman) and look at their "venting" and see if it has been therapeutic and/or corrosive to all parties concerned. What do you think?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Wade
You don't care what we have to say.......so why are you still asking us????

I am curious as to why you are asking and asking and asking yet....you are not happy with our answers

You cannot have your cake and eat it also........

[_Jersey Girl]

Knowing I will live to regret this...

Wade: I believe you are quite mistaken if you think that the Church and its members are not hurt by the "venting" at RFM.

Jersey Girl: How are they hurt?

[Gadianton]

Hi Wade,

Mr. X has become increasingly aggitated by his wife's incessant nagging and complaining and unhappiness, to the point that his anger is ready to explode. His wife comes in and starts railing on him about some menial task that he had yet to accomplish from the rather lengthy list of honey-do's. That was enough to trigger his anger, and he vented on her with a flury of invectives, foul language, and extremely derrogatory and demeaning remarks, that hurt and wounded her deeply. For days on end, and for weeks and months to follow, he kept up this flury of invectives.

Personally, I don't think being emotionally abusive to another human being is "venting," nor do I think emotional abuse is ever appropriate.

I would suggest venting is more like the women, in your above example, joining a support group for abused women and sharing her experience. Or maybe asking her sister who experienced a similar situation to come over to comfort her as she is distraught, sobbing, and needing support.~dancer~

While I agree that Mr. X was abusive, I don't understand how you can suggest that he wasn't venting his anger. Perhaps were he to have found a support group for overly nagged, exploited, and abused men, and released his hurt and anger in the same way to them rather than to his wife, would that have been venting instead of abuse? I think it would be venting anger either way, and perhaps even abusive either way. The distinction, then, isn't between venting vs abuse, but non-abusive venting vs. abusive venting. Agreed?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

Knowing I will live to regret this...

Wade: I believe you are quite mistaken if you think that the Church and its members are not hurt by the "venting" at RFM.

Jersey Girl: How are they hurt?

Wouldn't you feel hurt were your most beloved, loving, and charished beliefs and people to be the subject of intense and sustained mockery, profanation, vulgarity, denegration, name-calling, gossip, teeth-gnashing, and vile accusations?

Wouldn't you feel hurt that there are people with such little regard for your beliefs, and who devalue you and your people, and have such intense contempt for you and your faith even though they may never have met you or known you, but solely because you belong to a certain group, such that they would feel little or no compunction doing the things above?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_harmony]

Wouldn't you feel hurt were your most beloved, loving, and charished beliefs and people to be the subject of intense and sustained mockery, profanation, vulgarity, denegration, name-calling, gossip, teeth-gnashing, and vile accusations?

Wouldn't you feel hurt that there are people with such little regard for your beliefs, and who devalue you and your people, and have such intense contempt for you and your faith even though they may never have met you or known you, but solely because you belong to a certain group, such that they would feel little or no compunction doing the things above?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Hurt? Why hurt? Did you think everyone was going to love you? Not everyone loves the Jews, the Catholics, the Muslims, the Ba'hai, the Wiccans, the Buddhists, the Shivas, etc. etc. No one is universally loved; everyone's religion is fodder for the gossip mill. Just as God is no respector of persons, neither is anyone else. I think it's futile to expect a respect from all when you haven't earned it. And Mormons haven't earned it.

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

No they have not....not even close.....respect is a two way street.....but with Mormons it is a one way street...

[_wenglund]

Wouldn't you feel hurt were your most beloved, loving, and charished beliefs and people to be the subject of intense and sustained mockery, profanation, vulgarity, denegration, name-calling, gossip, teeth-gnashing, and vile accusations?

Wouldn't you feel hurt that there are people with such little regard for your beliefs, and who devalue you and your people, and have such intense contempt for you and your faith even though they may never have met you or known you, but solely because you belong to a certain group, such that they would feel little or no compunction doing the things above?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Hurt? Why hurt? Did you think everyone was going to love you? Not everyone loves the Jews, the Catholics, the Muslims, the Ba'hai, the Wiccans, the Buddhists, the Shivas, etc. etc. No one is universally loved; everyone's religion is fodder for the gossip mill. Just as God is no respector of persons, neither is anyone else. I think it's futile to expect a respect from all when you haven't earned it. And Mormons haven't earned it.

Whether you are correct about whether respect has been earned by the CoJCoLDS (you are, as expected, incorrect), there is a broad range between earned respect (what you mentioned) and unwarranted disrespect (what I was talking about), as well as between universal love (what you mentioned) and rank disdain by some (what I was talking about). Sorry that was lost on you.

Now, you may think that the religions you mentioned, or even agnostic and athiests, have no cause to feel hurt as a consequence of venting against them, but not everyone is as heartless as you.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-